using clones to catch bb8s

Wonder

Well-Known Member
#7
it takes much longer to catch bb8 by yourself so I don’t understand why you can’t just let people enjoy the event how they want to. it’s not like you’re guaranteed to get anything ~rare~ and it’s not stated to be against the rules ANYWHERE so if it’s a bannable offense that’s really crappy
 
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KarolynD

Impacting lives everywhere
#8
it takes much longer to catch bb8 by yourself so I don’t understand why you can’t just let people enjoy the event how they want to. it’s not like you’re guaranteed to get anything ~rare~ and it’s not stated to be against the rules ANYWHERE so if it’s a bannable offense that’s really crappy
like i stated above... im not really looking to get anyone in trouble, i was just looking out for myself.
 

McQuack

Well-Known Member
#11
The rules about clones are kinda ambiguous for events like these. The rules always had a clear stance that cloning is allowed for mini-games but for other events such as host rooms and collect-a-thon events the rule was that you were only allowed two accounts (which might not be the case anymore? I dunno).

I feel if there's going to be a penalty it should probably be well-defined somewhere in the game or rules page. Same goes for the use of Dash magic, nobody has any idea that it isn't allowed because there's no rule stating there isn't. Maybe the first time you collect a BB-8 a message could pop-up with a list of event rules. Or just have it posted on the Newsletter.
 

Heartsdown

Well-Known Member
#12
No one got I trouble for doing it during Pods, and almost every player was doing it. So I don't understand why People would started getting banned now. Plus you can only have 2 accounts on per IP. Who would really take the time to have themselves signed on 3 different computers.
 
#14
With all honesty, I don't comprehend why we have to make such a big deal of the use of clones. This is not my first rodeo around the block with mini games, and to be completely sincere this is the ONLY virtual game I have played that makes such an immense deal of the use of clones. Games as big as VFK, Yoville, SmallWorlds that have been in existence for over 10 years and continue to thrive even with the use of clones. Players in those games mind their own business, they enjoy the game, and the games are standing more solid than ever. As long as we don't step on each others feet and we play fairly and not steal or troll from room to room (which in my personal opinion is worse than using your own clones), I don't see what is the big issue. In this game everything is unfortunately turned into a big issue. pretty sad if you ask me. The entire community used clones to obtain pods and still did not guaranteed any rares. Why all of a sudden are we changing how things are done, was not an issue in the past.
 

PlayerOne

I shoot when you're stuck.
#15
With all honesty, I don't comprehend why we have to make such a big deal of the use of clones.
Because the whole point of organizing events like these is to encourage community interaction. The couple hours I spend chasing around the BB8 were filled with laughs and good discussions between players whom i am both friends with, and players that I had not known previously.

This is not my first rodeo around the block with mini games, and to be completely sincere this is the ONLY virtual game I have played that makes such an immense deal of the use of clones. Games as big as VFK, Yoville, SmallWorlds that have been in existence for over 10 years and continue to thrive even with the use of clones.
I mean with the exception of VFK, I've never heard of any of those. And are we really thriving to be compared to VFK? Let's not.

As long as we don't step on each others feet and we play fairly and not steal or troll from room to room (which in my personal opinion is worse than using your own clones), I don't see what is the big issue.
I mean that's where people can debate on what constitutes fair. Is it fair that people who are fortunate enough to have multiple computes that can run multiple instances of the game to be able to camp a room with clones to get all the bb8s for themselves? While other players have to compete and actually try to earn them?

The entire community used clones to obtain pods and still did not guaranteed any rares.
I mean, I don't know about anyone else, but I didn't use clones to collect pods. Just because you or multiple members of the community did does not make it right.

Why all of a sudden are we changing how things are done, was not an issue in the past.
It's really not. The rules have always been clear on using clones to gain advantages over other players. Sure, you can go "NO BUT IT ONLY SAYS FOR MINIGAMES!", but at that point you're really arguing about the wording of the rule which really should be implied that it extends to events such as these.


So let's argue the fact that people using clones should be allowed, because it's really not hurting anyone else, they can just go to another room. If that's the case, what about botting? What if I made a macro or script to have my character automatically catch BB8s? Or catch pods, or play jungle cruise, etc. Should that be allowed? It's the same logic, I'm not hurting or impeding anyone elses ability to play the game. What if I had 10 accounts all botting with this magical macro I made? The number really shouldn't matter, if 1 is morally okay than 10 should be too. I get that people like their rare items, that's why friendlies happen and thats why people use clones for events like these, it's all a means to acquire more pods/keys/BB8s in the end, but I do agree that some rules should be kept and enforced, to make it more fair for everybody playing.
 
#16
Because the whole point of organizing events like these is to encourage community interaction. The couple hours I spend chasing around the BB8 were filled with laughs and good discussions between players whom i am both friends with, and players that I had not known previously.


I mean with the exception of VFK, I've never heard of any of those. And are we really thriving to be compared to VFK? Let's not.


I mean that's where people can debate on what constitutes fair. Is it fair that people who are fortunate enough to have multiple computes that can run multiple instances of the game to be able to camp a room with clones to get all the bb8s for themselves? While other players have to compete and actually try to earn them?


I mean, I don't know about anyone else, but I didn't use clones to collect pods. Just because you or multiple members of the community did does not make it right.


It's really not. The rules have always been clear on using clones to gain advantages over other players. Sure, you can go "NO BUT IT ONLY SAYS FOR MINIGAMES!", but at that point you're really arguing about the wording of the rule which really should be implied that it extends to events such as these.


So let's argue the fact that people using clones should be allowed, because it's really not hurting anyone else, they can just go to another room. If that's the case, what about botting? What if I made a macro or script to have my character automatically catch BB8s? Or catch pods, or play jungle cruise, etc. Should that be allowed? It's the same logic, I'm not hurting or impeding anyone elses ability to play the game. What if I had 10 accounts all botting with this magical macro I made? The number really shouldn't matter, if 1 is morally okay than 10 should be too. I get that people like their rare items, that's why friendlies happen and thats why people use clones for events like these, it's all a means to acquire more pods/keys/BB8s in the end, but I do agree that some rules should be kept and enforced, to make it more fair for everybody playing.
Well as I stated before everything comes down to a matter of opinio

Because the whole point of organizing events like these is to encourage community interaction. The couple hours I spend chasing around the BB8 were filled with laughs and good discussions between players whom i am both friends with, and players that I had not known previously.


I mean with the exception of VFK, I've never heard of any of those. And are we really thriving to be compared to VFK? Let's not.


I mean that's where people can debate on what constitutes fair. Is it fair that people who are fortunate enough to have multiple computes that can run multiple instances of the game to be able to camp a room with clones to get all the bb8s for themselves? While other players have to compete and actually try to earn them?


I mean, I don't know about anyone else, but I didn't use clones to collect pods. Just because you or multiple members of the community did does not make it right.


It's really not. The rules have always been clear on using clones to gain advantages over other players. Sure, you can go "NO BUT IT ONLY SAYS FOR MINIGAMES!", but at that point you're really arguing about the wording of the rule which really should be implied that it extends to events such as these.


So let's argue the fact that people using clones should be allowed, because it's really not hurting anyone else, they can just go to another room. If that's the case, what about botting? What if I made a macro or script to have my character automatically catch BB8s? Or catch pods, or play jungle cruise, etc. Should that be allowed? It's the same logic, I'm not hurting or impeding anyone elses ability to play the game. What if I had 10 accounts all botting with this magical macro I made? The number really shouldn't matter, if 1 is morally okay than 10 should be too. I get that people like their rare items, that's why friendlies happen and thats why people use clones for events like these, it's all a means to acquire more pods/keys/BB8s in the end, but I do agree that some rules should be kept and enforced, to make it more fair for everybody playing.
Is unfortunate that you have never heard of games like Yoville and Smallwords. Yoville is an example of one of the biggest virtual games out there ran by Big Vikings Games. As far as VFK you have your opinion and I have mine. Being there since day 1 and I love it. Yes you are 100 percent correct there is no comparison, VFK is a very solid game. I do use a clone in vmk (not a whole crew) to help me obtain what I need, due to the fact that I am an adult and I cant be on 24/7 socializing and laughing to get items. However, I respect all opinions and do not try to impose what should be considered fair or not fair. Lets agree to disagree. With all the instances that we have, if 3 players choose one instance and each bring a clone and they don't bother anyone else, for me it is not an issue. But, as I stated before we all have different opinions and I see nothing wrong using clones unless is excessive.
 
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riddleguy

Well-Known Member
#17
I think clones should be allowed but only 1 per person...i believe the rules state we are only allowed 1 clone account to wear clothes of an alt gender. I see no problem with people using their clones for events as long as theres limits. However in this case, you need 5 people for bb8 to appear so people cant use clones to farm solo so even with clones they still encourage community interaction i think.

UPDATE: I think the best way to appease both sides is ban clones for most of the event but allow them to use their 2nd clone account towards the end
 

Wonder

Well-Known Member
#18
Because the whole point of organizing events like these is to encourage community interaction. The couple hours I spend chasing around the BB8 were filled with laughs and good discussions between players whom i am both friends with, and players that I had not known previously.

I mean that's where people can debate on what constitutes fair. Is it fair that people who are fortunate enough to have multiple computes that can run multiple instances of the game to be able to camp a room with clones to get all the bb8s for themselves? While other players have to compete and actually try to earn them?

It's really not. The rules have always been clear on using clones to gain advantages over other players. Sure, you can go "NO BUT IT ONLY SAYS FOR MINIGAMES!", but at that point you're really arguing about the wording of the rule which really should be implied that it extends to events such as these.

So let's argue the fact that people using clones should be allowed, because it's really not hurting anyone else, they can just go to another room. If that's the case, what about botting? What if I made a macro or script to have my character automatically catch BB8s? Or catch pods, or play jungle cruise, etc. Should that be allowed? It's the same logic, I'm not hurting or impeding anyone elses ability to play the game. What if I had 10 accounts all botting with this magical macro I made? The number really shouldn't matter, if 1 is morally okay than 10 should be too. I get that people like their rare items, that's why friendlies happen and thats why people use clones for events like these, it's all a means to acquire more pods/keys/BB8s in the end, but I do agree that some rules should be kept and enforced, to make it more fair for everybody playing.
I'm glad you like the community interaction but maybe some other people don't. Maybe some people live in different timezones where they can only play at 1-7am EST when no one else is on and cant physically get 5 people in a room?

does it really make you "fortunate" to have multiple accounts? Lol, anyone has the freedom to make accounts.

If they wish to have the clone rule be universal for all events, the wording needs to reflect that. You can't just ASSUME people will know what you actually mean. What if the law was like that? Well, the law says you can't drive through a redlight but i'm going to arrest you for going through a yellow light because I actually wanted to make both of those things illegal!


Botting (which is hacking) and using your other accounts to make a BB8 appear that you still physically have to catch yourself are two very different things. Your analogy falls flat here, not even close to being the same thing.

I think clones should be allowed but only 1 per person...i believe the rules state we are only allowed 1 clone account to wear clothes of an alt gender. I see no problem with people using their clones for events as long as theres limits. However in this case, you need 5 people for bb8 to appear so people cant use clones to farm solo so even with clones they still encourage community interaction i think.

UPDATE: I think the best way to appease both sides is ban clones for most of the event but allow them to use their 2nd clone account towards the end
Nope, the rules do not say that anywhere about clones.


And as we've seen in the past, when you police the game far too much you'll end up losing half of the players. Allowing people to catch bb8 by themselves really is not that big of a deal. I'll never understand why people get so upset over stuff like this every time we have an event like it.
 
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airham

Well-Known Member
#19
Haha this whole clones debate has been a long time in the making. And a lot of it does come back to the moderation of the game. It has been extremely unclear for the six months I've been playing (and longer than that, I'm sure) when clones are and are not allowed to be used. I also distinctly remember reading the rule on clone accounts to which @riddleguy referred, but @Wonder is correct that the current rules are mini-game-specific. In any case, it certainly seems to me that the policy on the enforcement of clones has basically been "don't ask, don't tell" for anything but minigames.

Setting the wording of the official rules to the side for a second, this thread reads mostly as a few die-hards grasping at straws to maintain a competitive advantage in the trading economy. And I won't lie, I've been known to use this to my advantage from time to time, as well. But if the intent of this BB-8 event was for 1 person to be able to sit in a room and collect all of the crates that spawned there, then there would never have been a 5 person (now 3) minimum. So even if cloning isn't a flagrant violation of the actual rules, as currently written, it clearly and undeniably violates the spirit and the intent of this event.

And, again, this is a microcosm of a larger issue. There is such profound entitlement in this community, and it leads people to think that they should be allowed to circumvent any semblance of actual competition. People have ceased to play a game, and have instead chosen to participate in a no-holds-barred item accumulation club. And, again, part of the problem here is definitely the fact that staff has been so unclear about the rules regarding multiple accounts. I hope they do a better job with that, going forward. But the community needs to take some ownership here, too. Any time there's any measure taken to level the playing field, the people with the most access to multiple computers cry foul. It's unreasonable and, frankly, it's childish. We're adults (the vast majority of us), and we should be above that.

If you want to continue complaining about rules against cloning and trying to force staff's hand on the issue, then that's your prerogative. But if you continue to do that, you should do so with the knowledge that it's your own sense of entitlement to virtual items and your own insecurity in your ability to win a fair competition that drives you to it.
 
#20
Personally, I feel we have gone round and round on the subject of clones to no avail. People either have them and use them, or they don't, there is no in between. They are not the most evil thing in the universe as most people make them out to be, but they can be abused, and I do understand the frustrations that come with that. However, I will be the first to admit that I have clones, and that I use my clones for many a purpose. Most of them are named as a character from the theme of a room or game I have built and want to add another level of interaction to the atmosphere. But I also use them for other purposes, and unfortunately, the only way to play fair is to play with clones. Clones leave a level playing field because they are allowed.

We play a game that has used clones from the get go. So unless we ban clones altogether, and make it so no one can have them, we will remain in a game where a select few choose to not have them, for whatever reason they deem important. But this is just one part of a larger issue. The small conversations that we have about this mask a larger problem in the community. At its heart, what are we really having a conversation about here? And the two sides of this argument are always the same, those who use clones and those who do not.

So should clones not be allowed to do events? You can not deny that the huge queues are in part filled with clones. Should we say no clones can be riding sits while we are playing, or socializing, on our main accounts? No clones should be able to do quests? As we know clones are not allowed to play minigames with themselves, but is it an unfair advantage if im playing in two separate games of Pirates? These are all uses people use them for, and some who think they are sneaking around on unknown clones truly arent. Its usually pretty easy to spot a clone, I know mine are. But if we say clones cannot do one thing, we need to say they cannot do anything. You can't go halfway on this issue.

Which brings me to this conversation... This event is different than other events that spawn items in rooms. Where pods populated one for every person in the room, you are at a strict disadvantage the minute BB-8 pops into the room due to the fact that there is only one. But a person in a room of five people has a much higher chance of catching him than a person in a room of fifteen. And it can be extremely hard to find other players (who don't leave the room when you enter) to hunt with. But that is their choice. It is their way of playing the game, as much as it is mine to try and find a room with enough people in it. But should we also say friends cannot hunt together? They have a distinct advantage of a group of five friends goes off to hunt themselves. In the time it may have taken for each of them to catch three, other people in a more populated room may have only caught one. Is that fair? Does that not constitute an advantage?

I personally could care less about getting "rares" in this game. A couple of pixels is not worth the time, effort, and occasionally money that this community wants for it. I hunt in these events (especially this one) because it is fun. Because I enjoy chasing around something and trying desperately to catch him. I am here to relive a game I loved, and to take part in the new things this team of people puts into it. Im not always looking for a sense of community (and a lot of times other people aren't either). We can have diplomatic conversations about this til the end of the world, but theres always going to be an unrest in the community unless its outright stated that:

Clones are allowed in all aspects of the game
or
That using clones for anything (except perhaps storage) is strictly forbidden.

You can't have your cake and eat it too in terms of this conversation. I understand both sides, I truly do, and while I fall more to allowing the use of clones side of the argument, people let their emotions cloud their judgement when it comes to this matter. It now falls to the staff team to make a decision on what kind of game they want to run. No matter what, there are going to be people that don't like the decision made, but at a certain point we must stop dancing around technicalities. If and when there is a clear announcement made on the subject, we will no longer have to senselessly argue it every time something like this comes up. :2cents:
 
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