Circus Animals

WHO

Active Member
#1
This is mainly about circus animals, but I guess you could include zoo too & bring it into the debate. I hate circuses and zoos but love them at the same time. I hate that the animals are in such a closed environment. They can't run around, explore and breed with the other animal they want. I think it's sad that they are so confined and limited for the sake of entertainment. I enjoy zoos for sure, I think it's neat to see the animals up close, but it's honestly so sad. (especially when you watch the animals pace around as if they've lost their minds)

So let's debate about circus/zoo animals and their treatment.
 
#2
I feel bad for the animals sometimes, but you don't know how the animal feels. They may like it, or they may hate it. I don't think they should be enclosed in such an environment their whole lives. They should be released sometime in their life. I think it depends on whether they were born as a circus animal/zoo animal, or if they were captured and brought there. Animals born in that way shouldn't go wild, they would probably die easily because they don't know any kind of survival skills. But those who were captured should be released sometime before they die.
 
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WHO

Active Member
#3
I feel bad for the animals sometimes, but you don't know how the animal feels. They may like it, or they may hate it. I don't think they should be enclosed in such an environment their whole lives. They should be released after a few years of captivity.
Why would an animal like being in an enclosed area and not in their natural habitat with their families, food etc?
 
#4
I feel bad for the animals sometimes, but you don't know how the animal feels. They may like it, or they may hate it. I don't think they should be enclosed in such an environment their whole lives. They should be released after a few years of captivity.
Why would an animal like being in an enclosed area and not in their natural habitat with their families, food etc?
If they were born in an enclosed area then they are used to their lives in there and that's their home.
 

WHO

Active Member
#5
I feel bad for the animals sometimes, but you don't know how the animal feels. They may like it, or they may hate it. I don't think they should be enclosed in such an environment their whole lives. They should be released after a few years of captivity.
Why would an animal like being in an enclosed area and not in their natural habitat with their families, food etc?
If they were born in an enclosed area then they are used to their lives in there and that's their home.

Not all animals are born in an enclosed area though.
 
#6
I feel bad for the animals sometimes, but you don't know how the animal feels. They may like it, or they may hate it. I don't think they should be enclosed in such an environment their whole lives. They should be released after a few years of captivity.
Why would an animal like being in an enclosed area and not in their natural habitat with their families, food etc?
If they were born in an enclosed area then they are used to their lives in there and that's their home.

Not all animals are born in an enclosed area though.
read my first post I edited it
 

Princess_Stitch

A Princess of Sorts
#7
Well, first we have to remember that American circuses and zoos are much different from many other countries, the recent happenings at the Copenhagen Zoo being a prime example. Our animal welfare laws and regulations differ greatly today.

I absolutely don't support animals (or human slaves, obviously) in the circus. I think it's a disgusting act and I'd never pay to see it. I have to hear a good argument as to why it's OK. I mean, how could any decent human support neglect and abuse in any form? Zoos, reserves, sanctuaries, and endangered breeding programs in favor of conservation, however, I'm 100% for. Wildlife needs protection and people need to be educated on the importance of it. Most of our zoos do just that. I've been to at least five zoos in my life and I've never seen a small enclosure or unhappy animal. Some of the longest living animals lived in captivity.

We have yet to stop poaching, but we have the ability to protect different species through captivity and conservation programs. I personally think an elephant living in a smaller but protected environment is a better option than it being shot and left to rot in the wild with the species eventually facing extinction. PETA (horrific organization, imo) will always find a way to argue animals in captivity, but we have to look at the big picture. Panda or not to panda? I want my kids to see pandas.

Circus? No. Zoo? Yes.
 
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Goddess

Where did 4 years go?!
#8
I don't know anything about circus animals or their treatment, but there's a lot of common misconception about Zoo's, and I'm sure Circus animals as well. Most Circus performers that work with animals, I'm sure spend more of their time caring for the animals than abusing them. Why would you abuse an elephant you have to ride for hrs in practice and during a show? Do you want to die? That animal will kill you! But, I'm passionate about animals and I think they're fascinating, especially aquatic animals and marine life. So I'm arguing for the pro-Zoo side, because there's a lot people don't actually know, but instead assume to know.

Now not ALL Zoo's are like this, but a good portion of them are, at least the Zoo's that are a part of the AZA (Association of Zoo's and Aquariums). These are accredited Zoo's in the states. If a Zoo isn't accredited by the AZA, they aren't a safe place for animals to be and those are the kinds of Zoo's that yes, are probably abusing the animals and aren't taking proper care of them, those are the ones to worry about, not the ones accredited by the AZA, those are safe. This applies to "Sanctuaries" and Animal Reserves as well, none of them are AZA accredited and only have to abide by USDA regulations which are completely lenient in comparison to AZA standards.

Everything in this post comes from people that work or have worked in these Zoo's. They are trained to take care of these animals and know what they're talking about. I'm not making these things up as I go, and it's not the product of shoddy research. This is information and facts provided by professionals that work in Zoo's across the nation, and by the AZA.

Zoo's follow the SSP (Species Survival Plan). This plan helps save endangered, wounded, and injured animals in the wild. When a Zoo accredited by the AZA saves an animal, the AZA is networked to that Zoo and can track and supervise how that animal is being treated and cared for while in captivity. They keep studybooks of bloodlines, and if a specific species is endangered and there are a male and female of that species at different Zoo's that are of breeding age and valuable genetics they can breed the two to begin the process of saving that species from extinction. A process otherwise near impossible in the wild in some cases due to poachers and such.

The SSP also incorporates a plan to re-introduce healthy animals that have been rescued, back in to the wild. But what people don't understand is not all of the Zoo animals were rescued, a lot were born in captivity as well. People argue all the time that the animals should be returned to the wild but what they don't understand is, they can't. They weren't born in the wild and would have no idea how to survive. Sending them to the wild would ultimately kill them, which is completely opposite of what Zoo's are trying to do. However, it does happen. Sometimes they are able to accomplish introduction or re-introduction to the wild safely with the animals health completely intact. Some are even adopted by wild "parents".

(Examples: http://animals.sandiegozoo.org/animals/california-condor ,
http://www.nczoo.org/conservation/regional/RedWolvesAliRiver.html)

Another thing Zoo's do that's important is conservation. Conserving the wildlife for the betterment of the animals and their habitat. People that oppose Zoo's often have no idea what conservation is, or even participate in it. They want the animals out of the Zoo, but have little to no idea how the impact of throwing them back in to harsh conditions could ultimately kill them. An example of this kind of ignorance (and I don't use that term insultingly) is when people protest orangutans being captive, but continue to buy products that contain Palm Oil. Deforestation of Palm Oil plantations are killing off Orangutans by the thousands. They've lost nearly 80% of their natural habitat, so where else are they supposed to go? Releasing an animal back in to harsh conditions that aren't conducive to the animal's survival is more cruel and inhumane than them being in captivity. There's a lot more that goes in to re-introduction than just "setting them free".

(Example: http://www.aza.org/conservation-commitments-and-impacts/)

People talk about the abuse the animals in Zoo's suffer. And while there are bad times, because of bad people that shouldn't be working with animals, the level people assume animals are being abused (but have little to no proof 90% of the time) is almost non-existent. The overall standard of care is incredible and most times, better than what people give their domestic pets by far. Zoo's take the nutrition of their animals highly seriously. Their diets are designed for optimum nutrition and conditioning of their bodies. And they are cared for by highly trained professional staff members that have worked with animals for years and years (they don't send a newbie to go and groom or feed the tigers.) Their health is extremely important to the Zoo, so there is always a team of world-class vets that are on-call 24/7 to be ready to care for the animal if need be.

The AZA has strict regulations about the animals treatment and care.
(Source: http://www.aza.org/animal-husbandry-and-welfare/)

Another thing that people assume about Zoo's is that the amount of space the animals are allotted isn't enough for them to be free and content with. There's only so much space Zoo's gave give, but they make up for what is lacking in the Enrichment process.
(Source: http://www.aza.org/enrichment/)

In the Zoo, environmental changes are made with the goal of increasing the animal’s behavioral choices and drawing out their species-appropriate behaviors, thus enhancing animal welfare. But in lament's terms, Enrichment is basically anything to stimulate the animals brain and make life in captivity not so boring for them. This can be incorporating toys, puzzle feeders, training sessions, cuddling, interaction with other animals, scent and sound, or even TV. A good example of this would be in one Zoo there's a tug-of-war game you can play with a tiger. A group stands on one side of the fence pulling the rope while the tiger pulls from the other side. People have often mistaken this practice for abuse, but it's a good form of enrichment. It allows the tiger to play, rather than lay in the dirt bored out of it's mind, and it's also a fun experience for guests.

And finally, Zoo's do a great deal of work with outreach and education of animals. So many people don't understand animals rights and just go off of assumption based on clippings they hear from other people here and there.

People are quick to pass judgement on Zoo's based on what they don't understand, but the key fact of why Zoo's are so important, is they keep animals alive and healthy.

For more information on the AZA and their policies, you can look here:
(Source: http://www.aza.org/ad-policy/)
 
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Valkyrie

Not so Active Member
#10
I am actually learning about animal captivity in one of my classes, and there are so many negative aspects to keeping animals imprisoned behind bars and be forced to perform for entertainment. I mean, it's sickening. I know this is about circus animals, but this can tie in to marine animals as well, such as the orcas at SeaWorld and other marine parks, but I'm going to stay in the subject of circus animals.

I know not all circus companies do this, but animals are tortured just for not behaving properly, and that involves whipping and other weapons. And if they come in contact with another animal, and if an animal is new, another one might start a fight with it because of territorial issues. These animals were captured/or bought for the sole purpose of entertainment, same goes for zoo's, but zoo's don't force the animals to entertain, they just mope around in cages. These animals couldn't be released back in to the wild, because if an animal had a baby, that baby would rely on a human for food and other necessities. They wouldn't know how to fend for themselves if they were out in the wild. This subject isn't worth majorly debating over, because of the negative and positive aspects to a solution to both arguments.
 
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Dempsey

who want lasanga?!
#11
I am completely against circuses but I am all for zoos--that is, if they are accredited ones. I want to be a zookeeper (my major is Zoology) and I have a strong passion for animals and educating others about animals. Zoos help with species conservation, educating the public, and giving people a chance to appreciate animals. I am not saying all zoos are great, because they are not. But the zookeepers work very hard to make sure the animals have a nice enclosure as well as enrichment so they do not get bored. There are strict guidelines zoos have to follow if they want to become accredited, and it is not an easy task.

That being said, I do not support the orcas in captivity at SeaWorld. I know the keepers do everything they and love the animals and care for them well, but there is just no way to give an animal of that size the proper enrichment that it needs. Also, the orcas are forced to perform for audiences.

I am completely against circuses, I do not agree with exploiting animals simply for entertainment value. Circuses would be much better if they did not use elephants/tigers/monkeys/etc. I have been against circuses for a very long time and I wish they would stop.
 

Oreo

LIKE NOBODY'S BIDNEHHZ
#12
Because my family owns our own circus and have collectively been in the business for over 40+ years, I know the ins, outs, and secrets of most circuses around the world. In addition, my mom used to be a clown and rode an elephant with Ringling Bros. for 3 years, and 99% of our friends are still involved with internationally acclaimed circuses that use animals. One of my best friends is the head of promotion for Feld Entertainment (who manages Disney On Ice, Disney Live, Monster Jam, and more specifically Ringling Bros (who has been under fire for years in regards to animal abuse)).

I don't know how much I can say in regards to specific incidents but I will try and fill you in on as much as I possibly can.

In regards to animals being abused in circuses, truly and honestly, there's very very very little incidents of actual abuse. And furthermore, most of the "claims" major animal rights groups have made have been legally proved to be false. Such cases included:

  • PETA sending a worker in disguise to work for Ringling for several years with the sole purpose of one day stage himself abusing a group of elephants (which ended up being the controversial video that was leaked several years ago).
  • PETA sending another worker several years later to work her way backstage. Upon coming to the elephant chambers, she tried to sneak grapefruits to some of the elephants but as that's against policy, the caretakers took the grapefruits away from her, later finding out that they were filled with razors. PETA felt it was better for the animals to die a tortuous death then be "forced to perform."

These are just some of the many cases. Of course, no organization is perfect and some circuses have their rotten eggs that they must eliminate. But truly and honestly, circus people are family and the only thing they value more than their own children are their animals. I guarantee you half the people that are against animals in circuses have never actually met a real circus family that performs with animals. The animals are given royal treatment and their trainers spend years of their life loving and caring for them. You will never see a more magical bond between human and animal than you will in circuses.

I find it utterly despicable when people do absolutely 0 research on animal acts in circuses and take what they read on the internet for granted. Animals in circuses are treated better than humans are and in the cases that they are not, the people who are mishandling them are fired and legally charged heavily. We value animals with the upmost respect and many circuses rescue animals that have been abused or are unable to fend for themselves in the wild. Feld itself (Ringling) spends millions and millions of dollars every year rescuing their elephants and housing them in a facility in South Africa where they can often times return to the wild. And, in the cases that they do perform in the circus, they are NOT forced to do anything they don't want to do. And anybody who has ever worked with an elephant or wild animal knows this. Many times, animal abusers don't even make it to the court house before they are caught because the elephant just sits on them. That usually ends in death for the abuser.

So please, for the sake of everything holy, do NOT say you're against animals in circuses unless you've experienced circuses first hand and have ACTUAL knowledge on the situation.
 

Goddess

Where did 4 years go?!
#13
I am completely against circuses but I am all for zoos--that is, if they are accredited ones. I want to be a zookeeper (my major is Zoology) and I have a strong passion for animals and educating others about animals. Zoos help with species conservation, educating the public, and giving people a chance to appreciate animals. I am not saying all zoos are great, because they are not. But the zookeepers work very hard to make sure the animals have a nice enclosure as well as enrichment so they do not get bored. There are strict guidelines zoos have to follow if they want to become accredited, and it is not an easy task.

That being said, I do not support the orcas in captivity at SeaWorld. I know the keepers do everything they and love the animals and care for them well, but there is just no way to give an animal of that size the proper enrichment that it needs. Also, the orcas are forced to perform for audiences.

I am completely against circuses, I do not agree with exploiting animals simply for entertainment value. Circuses would be much better if they did not use elephants/tigers/monkeys/etc. I have been against circuses for a very long time and I wish they would stop.
That's actually highly inaccurate. The animals in circuses don't do anything they don't want to do. And if they don't want to do it, they fight back. The animals in circuses and Zoo's are taken better care of than most domestic pets.

I'm interested in your source of information regarding Circus animals and their treatment. Would you mind providing it?
 

Oreo

LIKE NOBODY'S BIDNEHHZ
#14
Just thought I'd post this here. (:

Animal groups agree to pay nearly $16M to Ringling
HUMANE SOCIETY OF THE UNITED STATES AND CO-DEFENDANTS PAY
$15.75 MILLION SETTLEMENT TO FELD ENTERTAINMENT ENDING
14 YEARS OF LITIGATION
Unprecedented Settlement Brings Total Paid to Parent Company of
Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey® Circus to More Than $25 Million
Groups Settle with Circus After Federal Court Determined Case
Was “Groundless and Unreasonable”
Source: http://www.wric.com/story/25525032/...-nearly-16m-to-ringling#.U3Tpk5_ma7A.facebook
 

Kelsey

Well-Known Member
#15
imo... the circus is animal abuse in disguise. i'm so happy my mom never brought me to one and i know that in the future i won't be bringing my kids either.. these poor baby animals are tortured and basically manipulated to perform stupid acts to make other people happy.. i would support links and pictures but seeing them makes me cry.. (elephants getting tied up or burned by their feet), so i would suggest everyone to look it up if you're considering going to a circus.. it's just really sad and disgusting to me what people will do to harmless creatures just for the sake of money :um:
 

Oreo

LIKE NOBODY'S BIDNEHHZ
#16
imo... the circus is animal abuse in disguise. i'm so happy my mom never brought me to one and i know that in the future i won't be bringing my kids either.. these poor baby animals are tortured and basically manipulated to perform stupid acts to make other people happy.. i would support links and pictures but seeing them makes me cry.. (elephants getting tied up or burned by their feet), so i would suggest everyone to look it up if you're considering going to a circus.. it's just really sad and disgusting to me what people will do to harmless creatures just for the sake of money :um:
ok that's literally like saying bc there's pictures of one cop abusing someone that all cops abuse people...........there's more than one circus....there's more than one animal trainer...the actions of certain people/companies should not reflect that type of company as a whole. don't fall into the trap of associating one person's cruel acts with that of the majority in the same profession. it's not fair to the ppl who aren't committing such heinous acts and are loosing their professions because people like you assume that they are abusing their animals too because you saw something on google images.
 

Kelsey

Well-Known Member
#17
ok that's literally like saying bc there's pictures of one cop abusing someone that all cops abuse people...........there's more than one circus....there's more than one animal trainer...the actions of certain people/companies should not reflect that type of company as a whole. don't fall into the trap of associating one person's cruel acts with that of the majority in the same profession. it's not fair to the ppl who aren't committing such heinous acts and are loosing their professions because people like you assume that they are abusing their animals too because you saw something on google images.
animals aren't supposed to be "trained" to perform acts for other kids to laugh and giggle about? seriously, why would an elephant or a tiger WANT to be there and jumping through rings of fire? they're meant to be else where, where they belong and are happy, and not in some circus tent jumping around and performing these "acts" that all these people think they are... but let's remember that this is a debates section, so i wouldn't get too personal with me on this forums post. if i believe that the circus is animal abuse, then i certainly have the right to, as do you, so you can argue with me but you can't technically say i'm wrong.
 

Oreo

LIKE NOBODY'S BIDNEHHZ
#18
animals aren't supposed to be "trained" to perform acts for other kids to laugh and giggle about? seriously, why would an elephant or a tiger WANT to be there and jumping through rings of fire? they're meant to be else where, where they belong and are happy, and not in some circus tent jumping around and performing these "acts" that all these people think they are... but let's remember that this is a debates section, so i wouldn't get too personal with me on this forums post. if i believe that the circus is animal abuse, then i certainly have the right to, as do you, so you can argue with me but you can't technically say i'm wrong.
um hello......i never said you were wrong nor did i make it personal. all i did was literally respond using the information on your opinion that you provided in your post. the most personal i got was saying it's "not fair" which isn't saying anything about why you should or shouldn't have your opinion. it's true that some animals aren't meant to be trained, but it's actually physically and mentally healthy for a lot of animals to be trained. in addition, all of the animals in legit circus are animals that would not be able to survive in the wild and have been rescued from dangerous situations. a lot of circuses, most specifically cavalia, also have alternating animals so that each animal only has to perfect 1-3 times per week, with weeks off sometimes between their alternations. they're cared and groomed for and let exercise as much as needed throughout the day. they even have trainers who literally sleep with them through the night to ensure their well being. as soon as the animal shows signs of slowing down, whether that be two weeks or two years, they are taken to multi million dollar facilities where they can simulate wild life environments and receive the attention and medical needs they require until the ends of their lives. a lot of these animals might never perform in the show, immediately going to the facilities after being rescued or sent to another large organization dedicated to animal preservation. in addition, during the shows, if an animal isn't feeling well or doesn't want to perform, it isn't force to unlike google images likes to portray. if you forced an elephant or a tiger to perform against their will, you'd be dead. and it's happened numerous times with abusive trainers who forced their animals to perform against their will/tortured them. the stories would haunt you. remember, tigers and elephants weigh anywhere between 600-14,000 pounds and are among the most dangerous animals in the world. if they don't want to perform, they don't want to perform and if they're being abused, they're going to take the necessary measures to ensure their safety.
 

Fire

Well-Known Member
#19
Most zoo animals have been raised in captivity, meaning if they were released into the wild, they would die within days because they are used to no threats and hand-given food. Zoos also house an array of endangered animals that would be extinct if they were in the wild.
 
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