Clinton or trump?

[Kirllan]

I have read the Pro Clinton and the Pro Trump responses and this is what I need you all to understand why I am voting for neither and that due to voting for neither I give up my vote to one of the other. That is not true. I have heard so many say if you vote 3rd party you give Clinton the win not voting for Trump and vise versa from so many sources. I say NO! I am not voting 3rd party to vote against, I am voting 3rd party because I am for Darrel Castle. So why do I pick a neither vote in this Clinton or Trump debate? It is very simple as I noted in my last post. I voted Republican for since I was 18 and being 45 now I am seeing the GOP turn into a bastion of left leaning, Constitution hating, Christian hating political party. This GOP does not stand for my values and principles at all. I am waiting for the GOP at any given convention swear God off next at this rate. If you would all be open minded as all liberals would say and look into the Constitutional Party then you would understand why 3rd party.

Now, I cannot support either Trump or Clinton because I see so many supporters of either party making excuses for these candidates daily for their whims and having to justify their candidate. Now, I never have to do that with Darrell Castle and I tell people to prove me wrong. Darrell Castle wants a return to a Constitutional Presidency. For the longest time the presidential power has been abused by many since the Progressive Movement started and I think US people are tired of the corruption and abuse of the Executive Branch of the US government. If, and only if the US people are tired of this they would decease voting Democrat or Republican altogether. These 2 parties are dinosaurs and should be dropped. This is the modern age and we should have a political system that works around the needs of today's American people. The Democrats and Republicans want to keep us in the past and the status quo. Do you honestly think things will change in America for the good if we keep voting Democrat or Republican? The very definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. No one learns from history and whether you vote Republican or Democrat you are voting parties that want the same thing using different ideologies and they are not based on our Constitutional values. We need to vote in people who WILL stand for the Constitution and actually keep the oath they made and not usurp the Constitution like Obama has been doing for 8 years now. Let's face honest fact, vote Trump and you will get the same Republican crud we have got many times in the past or vote Clinton and we will get the same Democrat crud we have got in the past. Know the ideologies of these 2 parties and you will see why I vote neither from now on.

Be an educated voter and not just another citizen who says, 'Well, Obama says Clinton is more qualified so it must be true'. Be informed and do not just vote for yourself. There are millions of people in this US who are depending on you to vote for the President or official that WILL do the job of a Statesman. This is why voting your conscience is so important. Don't just vote and look back and say 'Well, that was a bad decision'. Take it from a person who has been voting since 1990, I voted every time saying 'Well, that was a bad decision'. This is why it is important to vote no matter who it is. For too long 3rd party has been a 4 letter word in the American dictionary. It is time for the American people to stand and deliver. This is why even though I vote Neither, my vote matters FOR Darrell Castle of the Constitution Party. Don't just vote because you want to be a winning vote, vote because you are convinced without a doubt that this person CAN and WILL do the job according to the Constitution. Thanks for reading

 

[waterfallglow]

Hillary! I supported Bernie all the way to the DNC, and will continue to support him, but I recognize that Hillary is our best chance at remaining even remotely democratic as a nation (I mean that bc if Trump is elected we may end up a dictatorship). And also because a woman's place is in the House, the Senate, and the Oval Office <3[DOUBLEPOST=1470261291][/DOUBLEPOST]
To be fair, I am vehemently anti-Cruz because he seeks to inject his Christian faith into the government, when there is a document that explicitly states that religion has no place anywhere near government decisions, by law. Unfortunately, with a lot of republican candidates, this is overlooked. As an atheist, I feel as though I am left out a lot of the time because republicans want to shove their faiths down my throat instead of keeping it within their homes and churches.

But I respect you for sharing your opinion and your beliefs in a respectful manner and I absolutely do not think differently of you for sharing said beliefs! <3[DOUBLEPOST=1470261476][/DOUBLEPOST]
I don't think "logical" and "Trump" can be used in a sentence together.

@Desdemona I first want to apologize if you were offended by my post. My expression of my beliefs is never intended to try and FORCE people to believe in God or anything I believe. Yes many Christians do try forcing their faith on others but I would like you to know I am not one of them. I just like expressing them for the fact of expressing them. Also, I believe you were referring to the constitution where it says seperation of Church and State. I believe many of people miss understand this particular law. What that law is about is that the government can't stop you from expressing your beliefs. It actually protects the right of people to worship and express their beliefs as they want to. Basically freedom "for" religion not freedom "from" religion. It's a subtle difference but a big difference. Same thing with Ted Cruz, he has the right according to that law to express his Christian beliefs and use them in his own personal decision making in life. By saying he can't do that is actually taking away his right according to that law. The way i see it is that it's a 2 way street. I won't force you to believe if you don't try to force me and Cruz not to believe. See, Cruz and myself are actually not trying to take away your right to not believe in God by us expressing that we do believe in him. We are just expressing them. By that law, you actually have that right to not believe in him just as much as we have a right to believe in him. Again, I really want to emphasize I am not trying to force you to believe in God or anything I have stated in this post. I am just expressing them.

 

[D.Va]

@Desdemona I first want to apologize if you were offended by my post. My expression of my beliefs is never intended to try and FORCE people to believe in God or anything I believe. Yes many Christians do try forcing their faith on others but I would like you to know I am not one of them. I just like expressing them for the fact of expressing them. Also, I believe you were referring to the constitution where it says seperation of Church and State. I believe many of people miss understand this particular law. What that law is about is that the government can't stop you from expressing your beliefs. It actually protects the right of people to worship and express their beliefs as they want to. Basically freedom "for" religion not freedom "from" religion. It's a subtle difference but a big difference. Same thing with Ted Cruz, he has the right according to that law to express his Christian beliefs and use them in his own personal decision making in life. By saying he can't do that is actually taking away his right according to that law. The way i see it is that it's a 2 way street. I won't force you to believe if you don't try to force me and Cruz not to believe. See, Cruz and myself are actually not trying to take away your right to not believe in God by us expressing that we do believe in him. We are just expressing them. By that law, you actually have that right to not believe in him just as much as we have a right to believe in him. Again, I really want to emphasize I am not trying to force you to believe in God or anything I have stated in this post. I am just expressing them.

No, I completely understand! I don't feel offended! I guess I did a bad job of explaining what I was trying to explain lol. I meant that your decisions in government cannot be dictated by your religion because the US does not have a national religion. So saying, "abortion cannot be legal because it goes against the will of God," or something along those lines, is a violation of the constitution. That's kinda what I meant. But I totally understand and I'm not at all trying to make you feel bad and I definitely am not offended by you or your beliefs. <3

 

[Whispered]

im not even going to continue the conversations i was having in this thread because i feel that everyone has said enough and we arent getting anywhere.

ill just say that there is a huge problem when one side's arguments are all based on morals and calling people "islamophobic, racially biased, sexist, etc" instead of actually refuting their claims. this type of ad hominem literally doesnt help the side formulating the attacks. at all. in fact, it just makes it harder to believe as it shows that there isnt a rational argument to form thus resorting to logical fallacies.

ill gladly respond to anyone who claims that hillary's plans are economically sound and socially correct with proof that she has no concept of economics, foreign policy, or anything else you want to bring up.

ill also repeat that i'm not voting for trump either. i took his side because thats what this thread asked and there seems to be a lot of uninformed or misinformed people on this thread who i would love to see try and refute the arguments i've presented (hint: its been shown the only refutation there is to be "youre (blah)ist or (blah)phobic" and/or "you arent a decent person" which aren't arguments really).

if you want to vote based on who can use politician speak to make you think they are decent and for all the things that are politically correct, sadly youre the reason hillary and trump are the nominees. in that case, vote for hillary because obviously shes the more "decent" of the two candidates, but dont come crying to me when you dont get your free healthcare, $15 an hour, free college, free everything that you so much want.

if you want to vote for someone who at least bases their policies in sound advice from economists and others, vote trump, johnson, or literally 95% of the other candidates out there. if you cant justify voting for trump, i understand, but look at johnson who is basically trump+hillary+economics+maturity all in one.


also i find it hilarious how people say that its unconstitutional and illegal to deport illegal immigrants. its not. the constitution only applies to citizens or legal residents, and the law clearly states that if you do not have a visa and are not a current citizen you cannot live in the US. like theres no arguing that.

also @Youtherevmk i agree with what you say about them being "handed" jobs instead of stealing, and how that shows a laziness on the part of americans who dont want them (who arent everyone or possibly even a majority). however, them being handed those jobs means that someone who is actually struggling and wants a job cannot take it. i am of the opinion that if all of the jobs currently performed by non-citizens were opened and people were told "go get a job or you're off welfare (but if you get a job you stay on)", many more people would be in these jobs and we wouldnt have to artificially deflate "unemployment" by not including people who stopped looking for work because there wasn't any. the jobs are there, some people want to work them, but they either are lazy and entitled and want $15 an hour for being a cashier at mcdonalds, or they cant get one because they are being either taken by persons who shouldnt have them, and/or the jobs are being done away with due to the high wage requirements.

i will now give my thoughts on illegal immigration.

deport all of them except the following:
those with a spouse, child, or parent in the country legally or who is a citizen
those who came here before age 18 and can either provide valid proof or who have some explanation as to why it was not their choice to come
those who have not committed any criminal offenses and agree to apply for a new "pathway" visa to stay in the country and work legally (see below)

for those with a family member in the country legally or who is a citizen, immediately issue family visas so they can begin the process of becoming a citizen.
for those before age 18, immediately offer citizenship and/or a childhood visa for a few years until the child is ready to become a citizen.

for those who wish to obtain the pathway visa, it would be a yearly application. the first application would include the background check. the visa would allow the immigrant to stay in the country (never deported to begin with), work at certain jobs (which would be paid at the wage a citizen would get under law) that are deemed to be hard to fill by citizens looking for a job (HOWEVER, persons currently holding a job would be able to continue at that job, and there would be immunity for the employer and the employee with regards to this one offense) which would include all minimum wage jobs in the country and all entry level jobs that have openings.
this visa would have to be renewed every year, and the applicant for renewal would have to show proof that they are either employed, or are taking steps to further their education. the federal government will provide interest free loans to these visa applicants if they choose to either take citizenship classes or take higher education at a public school, which will treat them as citizens for other financial aid purposes. these loans will not accumulate interest until 5 years have passed after education completed, and will not be due until 10 years after that (at minimum). the loans would be issued up to the amount certified by the school as necessary for education and related costs.

on the subject of student loans in the country, why the heck is the federal government charging us interest on loans. if we want to compete in the world, the federal government should give interest free loans that would not even begin to accumulate interest for 5 years after education completed, and would not be due until 10 years after that time. this would allow people time to pay off their loans before interest starts accumulating, and get settled and able to make payments before interest starts accumulating, but still turn a profit for the loan originator.

i dont see why it has to be an extreme - either deport all or give all amnesty, or give free college or interest-full loans. if you have any questions about my thoughts please feel free to ask because i legit want a candidate to propose this.

 

[Gallifreyan]

haha hey this thread rly shows u which one of ur frends u need to unfriend

 

[Rosey]

ill also repeat that i'm not voting for trump either.

I uh.... then why tell US to vote for trump? Yea it's someone to vote for if someone wants to vote but... lol? I'm?..
Yes I've read all your.... statements but this stood out to me the most.

 

[Gallifreyan]

@everyone

please stop believing the biased media when they tell you it's islamophobic to use religious and racial profiling. if you don't think the TSA for example should screen a muslim from syria who has purchased a one way plane ticket at the last minute and only has a carry on bag... do you even want security?

also the definition of career politician is someone who, when they're running, has made their living on politics for a decent time. if 15 years as a governor doesn't count as a career, idk what does. politics was envisioned by our forefathers to be the farmers electing farmers, the doctors electing doctors, and all taking turns to represent the people. not someone going in and being a politician for 10+ years.

also im not judging the blm movement, im judging the majority of people who are claiming to participate. i have seen the interviews with those who started the movement, and i think that they are going about it the right way, but the bottom line is that by saying "black lives matter" it is inherently ************, even if their intent wasn't. if it's inherently ************ to say "white lives matter" then it's ************ to say "black lives matter". and don't give me the ******** about "they aren't saying other lives don't matter" because even if they aren't, they're saying "black lives matter" more at this time, which is literally based on race and race alone. also "blue lives matter" can't be ************ because it's a profession so i don't understand those arguments?? again i dont judge anyone based on anyone else, its just a fact that a lot of the protesters who have bandwagonned onto blm have been violent, uneducated on the purpose of the movement, or ************.

also let's pull up the oxford english dictionary for a second: "having or expressing an intense dislike or fear of Islam or Muslims". not really sure how using race as one factor in the many-pronged approach to security is expressing a dislike or fear. also can we look at how Israel has not had a terrorist attack on an airliner of theirs within or departing their country ever. There have been a couple while a plane was parked on foreign soil or departed from a foreign country, but Israel's approach to airport security is top notch. because they don't have this ridiculous notion that you can't use a person's background and history to determine their risk level. it's called profiling - and it's what police do every day when they're looking for a suspect.

again, if illegal immigrants were all deported (which is, by the way, completely legal under current law as ICE has the authority to deport anyone who is not in the country legally), the country may implode, but that's why you do it slowly. if americans weren't so entitled as a society this wouldn't be a problem. we think we are entitled to a high paying job where we work 10 hours a week to sit behind our computer the rest of the time. no, if you want a high paying job you work up to it. maybe if illegal immigrants weren't taking all the jobs during the recession, people who lost their jobs could have begun working up again while there were measures in place to help them (long term unemployment, more welfare, etc). in fact that's how it's designed - you aren't supposed to get a minimum wage job and support your family. if you legitimately cannot advance due to bottlenecking in the job market or anything like that, then there is welfare to help you until you can move up. however, people now think they can work 32 hours a week as a burger flipper and think theyre entitled to 15 dollars an hour. and thats just absurd.

bottom line society has all these wrong ideas about political correctness and being entitled and honestly it upsets me and it should upset you too. for people that reference europe with a higher minimum wage and open borders, and welfare states, look at how their society acts - they are all friendly towards each other, they are not entitled, they work for what they want in life and only depend on the welfare when they need it... i would love for america to become as advanced as say sweeden, but it wont happen while americans try harder to be politically correct than they do to actually get a job.

Just gonna reply to ur Israel comment bc I just read it. Israeli police literally harasses anyone who looks Muslim or Arab. My friend went there and at the airport they harassed everyone and made all the women take their hijabs off for no reason for at least an hour in front of everyone. It's honestly so disgusting how they treat muslims and if you don't believe me there's a bunch of videos on the internet you can watch. I'm just not going to get started on this bc that's a whole different debate.

 

[Whispered]

I uh.... then why tell US to vote for trump? Yea it's someone to vote for if someone wants to vote but... lol? I'm?..
Yes I've read all your.... statements but this stood out to me the most.

i think its obvious i use "if you want... then vote for.. if you want.. then vote for.." as a satirical literary device to a) show how stupid it is to only consider two parties, b) show who i feel the lesser of two evils is, and c) recommend one of the two for you to vote.

 

[Angel]

Just a reminder, please be respectful while giving your opinions.

 

[Littlebelle]

Just gonna reply to ur Israel comment bc I just read it. Israeli police literally harasses anyone who looks Muslim or Arab. My friend went there and at the airport they harassed everyone and made all the women take their hijabs off for no reason for at least an hour in front of everyone. It's honestly so disgusting how they treat muslims and if you don't believe me there's a bunch of videos on the internet you can watch. I'm just not going to get started on this bc that's a whole different debate.

I went to Israel to. Yes they interrogate everyone that drops off luggage at the airport. When I went you had to drop off your luggage the day before your flight. Yes they profile. No what I do not care. Why because Israel lives with many border countries hating Jewish people. They have dealt with terrorism for most of their time as a country. They also have one of the safest planes to travel with because of how they handle inspections. I am sure their are bad Israeli polices as there are bad police in every country. What you see in the video would be no different than me posting videos of Muslims in Britain demanding police die and taking over entire streets and going after white people. It is all in context.

 

[Whispered]

Just gonna reply to ur Israel comment bc I just read it. Israeli police literally harasses anyone who looks Muslim or Arab. My friend went there and at the airport they harassed everyone and made all the women take their hijabs off for no reason for at least an hour in front of everyone. It's honestly so disgusting how they treat muslims and if you don't believe me there's a bunch of videos on the internet you can watch. I'm just not going to get started on this bc that's a whole different debate.

there are bad cookies in every batch. i have a feeling that your friend is exaggerating, or maybe has met one of those bad cookies, because my good Jewish friend who has traveled to Israel multiple times and has not experienced that.

What they did experience was enhanced luggage security, enhanced interrogation, including the use of racial and religious profiling among other things (please note we already use profiling in the US, including gender profiling, age profiling, etc. in airport security), and, oh yeah, no terrorist attacks on a jetliner in or departing their country. Ever.

@Littlebelle I agree fully with what you said. I also would like to point out that racial profiling is not rac.ist by definition as it is not by default causing any harm to anyone. Racial profiling means that someones race is taken into account (HINT: affirmative action) when making a determination if they are a threat or not.

 

[Gallifreyan]

I went to Israel to. Yes they interrogate everyone that drops off luggage at the airport. When I went you had to drop off your luggage the day before your flight. Yes they profile. No what I do not care. Why because Israel lives with many border countries hating Jewish people. They have dealt with terrorism for most of their time as a country. They also have one of the safest planes to travel with because of how they handle inspections. I am sure their are bad Israeli polices as there are bad police in every country. What you see in the video would be no different than me posting videos of Muslims in Britain demanding police die and taking over entire streets and going after white people. It is all in context.

It's really sad to see how Americans are bombarded with pro-israel media and don't actually know what goes on there. If you think the way Israel treats Palestinians is justified, then please do your research. Israel asked google to censor all videos about Palestine but of course google didn't comply. If they're in the right, what do they have to hide?? Oh that's right, the way they treat Arabs. What's happening there is apartheid. It's so difficult to discuss this, especially on this censored forums, because whenever someone defends Palestine, it's frowned upon.

there are bad cookies in every batch. i have a feeling that your friend is exaggerating, or maybe has met one of those bad cookies, because my good Jewish friend who has traveled to Israel multiple times and has not experienced that.

What they did experience was enhanced luggage security, enhanced interrogation, including the use of racial and religious profiling among other things (please note we already use profiling in the US, including gender profiling, age profiling, etc. in airport security), and, oh yeah, no terrorist attacks on a jetliner in or departing their country. Ever.

@Littlebelle I agree fully with what you said. I also would like to point out that racial profiling is not rac.ist by definition as it is not by default causing any harm to anyone. Racial profiling means that someones race is taken into account (HINT: affirmative action) when making a determination if they are a threat or not.

"Jewish friend" please just think about what you just wrote. Of course he didn't experience anything like that, he was jewish. It honestly makes me so sad when people think it's ok to profile muslims because they "might" be terrorists when muslims are the largest group of people who are actually dying from terrorism. And a lot of it isn't even directly from terrorism, it's from all the racial profiling that goes on in western countries. Do you know how many innocent muslims died after 9/11?

Spoiler

I'm honestly so upset right now, I don't even know what to say to such ignorance.

 

[HOST_Duchess]

Another reminder: Please keep this thread on-topic. If you wish to start a separate thread to continue the discussion of racial profiling, feel free to do so.

 

[Peasy]

Neither. I'm going Independent because I refuse to vote for either of these two. I mean, really, America? I am so sad that these are our primary options. *sigh*

 

[garfield_boy]

I would say Trump because he does have some good ideas. Not the best choice of wording and yes I do believe in most of his conspiracy theories. It's just like listening to Alex Jones talking about the new world order. But I know he cares about this Country and he's been showing it. Veteran's come first before anyone else. He did raise funds for our veterans who do need it instead of keeping it for himself. Most politicians who wants to start fundraisers keeps it for themselves. Bernie bought himself a 600 billion dollar mansion with his supporters cold hard cash. I'm not going to say anything else, this is a political correct forums and i'm being censored. I'm just stating a little facts.

 

[Youtherevmk]

Bernie bought himself a 600 billion dollar mansion with his supporters cold hard cash.

No one is censoring you...

If you make false statements you are going to get called out. It was 600k, not 600 billion. Please do research before joining in a debate because you are not stating "little facts," you're spreading lies.

If you're going to claim that Trump has "some good ideas" then please elaborate.

 

[Magenta]

Im not affiliated with either party Ive always been independent and always will be. there may be some issues i may agree/disagree with from both sides but other than that im not fully connected to one canidate. As of right now im undecided

 

[CoralHibiscus]

I'd rather vote for Mickey Mouse tbh

 

[Lissa]

living outside of the u.s. someone asks me abt trump/how i'm voting literally everyday and i just want it to be OVER

 

[joetheman]

I am voting for Trump.