Clinton or trump?

(Continued from above)

In response to "Trump doesn't mean the outrageous things he says":

a) The aforementioned cabinet picks and decisions he's made since getting elected seem to speak to the fact he really does mean most of the horrible stuff he's said
b) Isn't it all you Trump supporters that are always going on about Hillary lying? If Trump says outrageous things he doesn't really mean, isn't that really just another form of lying? So shouldn't yall be upset with him too? Related to that, Hillary was actually ranked as the most honest candidate of this entire election season (primaries and general) by a fact checking website who ranked all the statements made by the candidates based on how truthful they were (she was even ranked more truthful than Bernie) - guess which candidate was the biggest liar? (Hint: Rhymes with "rump")

In response to this last bit - "...US to become the world power it once was yet again? Personally, I voted for someone who I trusted to make America great again. Sure, I don't agree with everything he or Mike Pence support, but it's much more important to me that my children have the American Dream to look forward to than if I am able to get married to the man of my dreams in the short term. Social issues will resolve themselves eventually without electing someone who is politically inept (look at slavery, which was abolished with almost 100% republican and 0% democratic support, etc)"

a) Uh, we already are a world power. By pretty much every metric
b) You voted for someone to make America great again? What does that substantively mean? I'm not sure what era of American history you are yearning for. Post WWII America? Because if that's the case, you should know that
i) The conditions for America's prosperity post WWII were unique to that era, I'd go into it more but this post is already ridiculously long. But read up on it. You can't just artificially replicate the conditions we were in after WWII
ii) It really wasn't that great. Ya know. Segregation. Civil rights abuses. All that fun stuff.​
c) You want to have an American Dream to look forward to? When did it die? What kind of dream are you talking about? Pretty sure the dream and hope of building a better life is still there
d) If this is about bringing back, like, coal jobs and the like, sorry to break the news to you but Trump isn't bringing that back. No one is. The nature of technology and progress is just that some jobs will eventually become obsolete. Adapt or get left behind. People getting angry about these kinds of jobs going away sound as silly as if I demanded a job as a streetlamp lighter or something right now.
e) Mmmmm nope social issues don't just magically resolve themselves. Social issues improve when people - in solidarity with legislators and the like - work together to push for policy change.
f) If someone cites this "Republicans were the ones who abolished slavery!" stat at me one more time, I may lose it. Read up on your history, the Republican party that Lincoln was part of is comparable to the Democratic party today. The identity of the parties have gone through a MASSIVE shift since then, so current Republicans trying to take credit for abolishing slavery is kind of just a sad, willfull ignorance of how the parties have historically evolved.

Lastly, in response to your bit about how Hillary supposedly was disrespectful for going to bed - did you maybe consider that the woman is human and wanted to make sure she knew exactly what she wanted to say before having to make what was arguably the most painful speech of her life, where she, an absurdly qualified woman, lost to an absurdly underqualifed man?

Anyway, below are some links to articles I would highly recommend checking out (to anyone on this thread) if you have some time (I'll add to this list of links later if I have time):

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/12/every-terrifying-thing-that-donald-trump-has-done.html
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ary-clinton-honest-transparency-jill-abramson
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/...g-defense-of-Hillary-Clinton-I-have-ever-seen
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...ing-hillary-clinton-donald-trump-truth-o-met/

Anyway. Some food for thought.

Much love,
Sam
 
(Continued from above)

In response to "Trump doesn't mean the outrageous things he says":

a) The aforementioned cabinet picks and decisions he's made since getting elected seem to speak to the fact he really does mean most of the horrible stuff he's said
b) Isn't it all you Trump supporters that are always going on about Hillary lying? If Trump says outrageous things he doesn't really mean, isn't that really just another form of lying? So shouldn't yall be upset with him too? Related to that, Hillary was actually ranked as the most honest candidate of this entire election season (primaries and general) by a fact checking website who ranked all the statements made by the candidates based on how truthful they were (she was even ranked more truthful than Bernie) - guess which candidate was the biggest liar? (Hint: Rhymes with "rump")

In response to this last bit - "...US to become the world power it once was yet again? Personally, I voted for someone who I trusted to make America great again. Sure, I don't agree with everything he or Mike Pence support, but it's much more important to me that my children have the American Dream to look forward to than if I am able to get married to the man of my dreams in the short term. Social issues will resolve themselves eventually without electing someone who is politically inept (look at slavery, which was abolished with almost 100% republican and 0% democratic support, etc)"

a) Uh, we already are a world power. By pretty much every metric
b) You voted for someone to make America great again? What does that substantively mean? I'm not sure what era of American history you are yearning for. Post WWII America? Because if that's the case, you should know that
i) The conditions for America's prosperity post WWII were unique to that era, I'd go into it more but this post is already ridiculously long. But read up on it. You can't just artificially replicate the conditions we were in after WWII
ii) It really wasn't that great. Ya know. Segregation. Civil rights abuses. All that fun stuff.​
c) You want to have an American Dream to look forward to? When did it die? What kind of dream are you talking about? Pretty sure the dream and hope of building a better life is still there
d) If this is about bringing back, like, coal jobs and the like, sorry to break the news to you but Trump isn't bringing that back. No one is. The nature of technology and progress is just that some jobs will eventually become obsolete. Adapt or get left behind. People getting angry about these kinds of jobs going away sound as silly as if I demanded a job as a streetlamp lighter or something right now.
e) Mmmmm nope social issues don't just magically resolve themselves. Social issues improve when people - in solidarity with legislators and the like - work together to push for policy change.
f) If someone cites this "Republicans were the ones who abolished slavery!" stat at me one more time, I may lose it. Read up on your history, the Republican party that Lincoln was part of is comparable to the Democratic party today. The identity of the parties have gone through a MASSIVE shift since then, so current Republicans trying to take credit for abolishing slavery is kind of just a sad, willfull ignorance of how the parties have historically evolved.

Lastly, in response to your bit about how Hillary supposedly was disrespectful for going to bed - did you maybe consider that the woman is human and wanted to make sure she knew exactly what she wanted to say before having to make what was arguably the most painful speech of her life, where she, an absurdly qualified woman, lost to an absurdly underqualifed man?

Anyway, below are some links to articles I would highly recommend checking out (to anyone on this thread) if you have some time (I'll add to this list of links later if I have time):

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/12/every-terrifying-thing-that-donald-trump-has-done.html
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ary-clinton-honest-transparency-jill-abramson
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/...g-defense-of-Hillary-Clinton-I-have-ever-seen
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...ing-hillary-clinton-donald-trump-truth-o-met/

Anyway. Some food for thought.

Much love,
Sam
Can I like both of these posts 500 times please?
 

Whispered

Well-Known Member
@Disantha i'd just like to point out at the risk of running slightly afoul of forum rules that i most certainly am a member of at least two of the groups that trump is apparently so vehemently against, and i know multiple other members of these groups who voted for him.

i'm done having a discussion over who's more qualified or anything to be president by now (we're closer to the inauguration than to the election by now, and it's set in stone unless trump resigns or something). i'd much rather everyone try to have reasonable discourse about policies now. like, it does no good for republicans to just say "zomg i hat (lol tbt to the original vmk when u said hat) all of teh demz policies" and it does no good for the democrats to say "yo these darn diggity gopers and their x y or z".

find a problem, formulate a solution, then ask the other side what they find wrong with it, and compromise. that's how it works, and even the news can't get over the fact trump won still. like can we all move on, be friends, etc.?

gays for trump, gays for hillary, gays for kony 2012, straight people for all of the above, muslims for all of the above, etc.... who actually cares anymore? we are supposed to be one country and people can't act mature enough to move past the election and actually talk about policy.


but to be honest @Disantha none of the above was towards you i just don't wanna continue the discussion this far after. you make good points and if i actually cared enough about the election anymore i'd debate with you.
 
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