On Staff and Competition Judging

[PlayerOne]

So this can be quite a controversial topic, if the reaction posts from this past competition is any indication. Here are my opinions on it, and how i think it should be changed:

I think it is silly that staff members can participate in competitions along with normal members, for the following reasons:

• Staff judge the competitions. Now you can post all you want about how staff are not biased at all in the judging, but the truth is of course there will be some biased. It's human nature. And when it is someone you work closely with, or even is considered your "boss" (As in an Admin to a HOST or something like that), there is going to be even more bias. It is simply not fair to allow staff to judge staff entries. If an elementary school held a science fair, and the winner of the science fair ended up being one of the teachers...would that make much sense?
• Staff have the ability to see their competition, even when it is not wanted. I am in no way saying that anyone has done this, there is no way to confirm or deny it. But staff have the ability to enter locked rooms. Rooms that the user has wished to keep secret. They can enter invisible.
• Staff have insider information of the (re-)release of items, allowing them to sell/trade items and have a good idea on what is to come. Now this is more a point towards abolishing staff anonymity, but i think it applies here as well. Some staff certainly has to be aware of what items will be coming out, which of those items are re-releases, when they are coming out, what items are planned in the months ahead. Even if they do not consciously act on this information, it is still present for them for their player accounts. If black flip hat were to be re-released in a week or two, even as a rare HOST or SITS prize, it would not surprise me to see some staffs players account to be suddenly trading away their black flip.. Simply said, with the information staff possess, it is easier for them to acquire items to build with. The more items you have to build with, the easier it is to build better looking rooms.

My suggestion on what is to be done is this: Allow no staff to enter into the same pool of entrants in any room building competition. Instead, have a separate competition for staff members, even with identical prizes (Though the number of prizes given would have to be modified obviously, due to the low number of staff players), and have the community vote on which rooms they like best. Ask staff to keep their rooms locked during building/judging so the community does not know whose rooms are whose, to avoid a popularity contest. This way staff get a chance to build a competition room, compete for the same prizes, and get the attention they like when they win. I think this approach is more more fair to the normal players, and is not too unreasonable to consider.

 

[Elegance]

My suggestion on what is to be done is this: Allow no staff to enter into the same pool of entrants in any room building competition. Instead, have a separate competition for staff members, even with identical prizes (Though the number of prizes given would have to be modified obviously, due to the low number of staff players), and have the community vote on which rooms they like best. Ask staff to keep their rooms locked during building/judging so the community does not know whose rooms are whose, to avoid a popularity contest. This way staff get a chance to build a competition room, compete for the same prizes, and get the attention they like when they win. I think this approach is more more fair to the normal players, and is not too unreasonable to consider.

I really like this idea! I think a friendly competition amongst staff could be fun!

 

[BluEyedGal]

I think this is a great idea. It keeps everyone included and helps avoid the drama that some players feed off from.

 

[Amy]

This idea (a separate competition that is voted on by players) was actually brought up within the staff at one point, the problem I see with it though is that it guarantee's at least one staff member a win which is kind of an unfair advantage in itself.

 

[BluEyedGal]

This idea (a separate competition that is voted on by players) was actually brought up within the staff at one point, the problem I see with it though is that it guarantee's at least one staff member a win which is kind of an unfair advantage in itself.

I don't see it as unfair if they are in a competition amongst themselves. It encourages them to still play the game rather than just being staff and also involves the players who get to vote. The thing that bothers me the most is those players who wait for staff to win and then blow it up into a huge deal. I think this can be avoided while still allowing everyone a chance to play regardless of status.

 

[Bernie]

This idea (a separate competition that is voted on by players) was actually brought up within the staff at one point, the problem I see with it though is that it guarantee's at least one staff member a win which is kind of an unfair advantage in itself.

You have a good point when you say it guarantees a staff member a win, being an unfair advantage. However this really shouldn't be a problem with at least one member of staff getting a grand prize. You've said previously that staff should be allowed to participate in events because they put so much effort into making the game enjoyable for everyone. With that being said, they should be allowed that advantage of knowing at least one member staff will win a grand prize, and I don't mean in a competition involving the regular players. You've shown us a picture before of how staff could get whatever item they wanted anyway, so why would we care if they win a grand prize? Doing separate competitions will mean that no one can say "OMG thats so unfair, staff got a grand prize." because we will have our own competition to look forward to. It's better having staff compete against themselves and us judging them rather than having them competing in regular player's events, which they judge, and winning. That's probably what bothered everyone the most. I don't think any of you want to deal with the drama that comes after that again.
This is all coming from a player who didn't even participate in the competition. I'd just rather NOT lose more of my friends who play this game because of drama.

 

[Antique]

You have a good point when you say it guarantees a staff member a win, being an unfair advantage. However this really shouldn't be a problem with at least one member of staff getting a grand prize. You've said previously that staff should be allowed to participate in events because they put so much effort into making the game enjoyable for everyone. With that being said, they should be allowed that advantage of knowing at least one member staff will win a grand prize, and I don't mean in a competition involving the regular players. You've shown us a picture before of how staff could get whatever item they wanted anyway, so why would we care if they win a grand prize? Doing separate competitions will mean that no one can say "OMG thats so unfair, staff got a grand prize." because we will have our own competition to look forward to. It's better having staff compete against themselves and us judging them rather than having them competing in regular player's events, which they judge, and winning. That's probably what bothered everyone the most. I don't think any of you want to deal with the drama that comes after that again.
This is all coming from a player who didn't even participate in the competition. I'd just rather NOT lose more of my friends who play this game because of drama.

I totally agree with you. The idea of having a staff competition that users vote on (obviously with the anonymity of whose room it is) is a great idea! At least this way the staff can win the competition without taking a prize away from regular members of the community (which I think is why most people were upset with the whole situation). I'm sure with a little tweaking of the details this could be a good thing @Amy

 

[dudescl]

This idea (a separate competition that is voted on by players) was actually brought up within the staff at one point, the problem I see with it though is that it guarantee's at least one staff member a win which is kind of an unfair advantage in itself.

The crucial point here is that when we say a staff-only competition, we do NOT mean their regular accounts. Like @Bernie said it doesn't matter to anyone if a staff account wins a grand prize as they have unlimited access to all items anyway, it's simply for the sake of winning the competition. However, if staff's regular accounts are allowed to win grand prizes, that is where the issue arises and this is what really should never have been allowed. There's no fair way to include them in non-staff competitions, which are judged by staff, and it's just something they have to give up when they're chosen for the job.

 

[PlayerOne]

I agree with what everyone seems to be echoing, I don't believe staff getting a grand prize is what upsets people, it is the fact that staff get a grand prize in a competition judged by staff. Staff deserve to be awarded for building great rooms too, we just need a more fair way of judging those staff rooms, hence the separate competition.

 

[Amy]

I'll just clarify that when I showed staff could give any items, I didn't mean they do. They only give items to their staff accounts, and we log it so if we saw anyone giving them to anyone but staff accounts we would obviously do something about it, I only posted it as an example of why it would be silly to go to the trouble of rigging an entire competition, and ruin it for players in the process. I'm not against this idea though, I'm just not sure how the rest of the community would receive it. If it was done, I guess doing it through a forum poll where the voters are shown publicly might be the best way.

 

[Fotogirl]

I agree with almost every thing that has been said here and someone did touch on another issue that arises when staff are building rooms that are basically designed to be player contests. Staff are aware of upcoming releases. Releases even a few months out, so they certainly know what will be coming for the current month. It would not be unreasonable to think that a staff member could choose a theme centered around upcoming releases giving them unfair advantage. They know the item(s) are coming out and can build preparing for that item(s) leaving space to place them when released. If the releases are within that last week or last few days of build time most players might be unprepared to buy those items much less build an entire room reflecting that theme. Hence the staff member has the unfair advantage of using items that may not be seen in many other rooms making their room stand out as being "something different." I did not enter this year on my main account. I used my boy account and built a room worthy of being judged mostly so I would get the participation prize hoping to avoid disappointment yet again. My disappointment was not in the fact that I didn't win, it was that even though the rules were changed to enhance the voting and choosing of winners its seems the results were much the same as in the past. Yes, having a staff only competition would guarantee one person winning a grand prize, but the prizes could be structured much like player prizes. Have a grand prize winner and 2-3 runner up prizes. If players vote surely there would be a clear winner and runner ups.

 

[joshzj]

only problem is that if its the players account winning then it gives away what the staffs player accounts are. Not saying this still isn't a possibility but just mentioning it

 

[Rob P]

only problem is that if its the players account winning then it gives away what the staffs player accounts are. Not saying this still isn't a possibility but just mentioning it

That's the problem. I think that when staff are hired they should just acknowledge and respect the fact that they cannot enter regular-player competitions, because they simply aren't regular players, and it would hinder their anonymity as a staff member.

The fact that they even enter a player competition is kind of rude towards regular players (in my opinion) because we do not have the luxuries of knowing what items are being released that month. Even though they are entering under their regular players, their advantages as staff members can be utilized in the competition. It's like two people taking a test, and one of them was able to see what questions were on the test before taking it!

I agree with the staff competitions. The prize may not mean much to staff since they can obtain any item, but the fun would be winning in itself. Ultimately, when someone becomes a staff member, I think it's fair for them to understand that they have to sacrifice the ability to enter player competitions, period.

 

[CoralHibiscus]

only problem is that if its the players account winning then it gives away what the staffs player accounts are. Not saying this still isn't a possibility but just mentioning it

Maybe they can make the room as their player account but have it entered under their Staff name so they remain as anonymous as possible to the community? We all know that Staff know each others player accounts, so they could make sure the winner gets the items added the right account.
That way they can have a staff competition, but still get a prize for their player account.

 

[Porcelain]

This idea (a separate competition that is voted on by players) was actually brought up within the staff at one point, the problem I see with it though is that it guarantee's at least one staff member a win which is kind of an unfair advantage in itself.

i..what.......... i can't wrap my head around this reasoning because staff members have already been winning competition after competition for quite some time now lol. i mean, at this point, staff is basically already guaranteed a win in player competitions.

and i know that staff members like to build rooms and do that kind of stuff, and they should definitely be allowed to do that, but why do staff need to be entered for prizes anyways? like.... can't they just give themselves whatever items they want? why take those competition prizes away from regular players and give them to staff who already have the entire myvmk catalog at their disposal? i don't understand... especially since everyone already knows most of the staff's player accounts.. like.........yo

 

[Mothstradamus]

I don't think this needs to be as difficult as it's being made out to be.
I see it like this:
Those that work/volunteer for MyVMK in any way, shape, or form, that uphold a position of authority may not participate in a competition of any shape or form while they are actively performing their duties.

For example, Disney does not allow its cast members, or family members of said cast members to participate in any contests/competitions/raffles/etc. so that fairness can be ensured.
The same goes for any other corporation or group, and I get that MyVMK isn't a major site and that it is a very small community, but the spirit of the issue is the same. The community wants fairness, and equality takes sacrifice.

 

[MinnieMagic]

Ok I agree that something should be done, but from what I am hearing is that the staffs every day avatars should not be allowed to be able to obtain the same things we can try for as prizes? Really? I am not sure I see this as fair. Yes, they may be able to use those prize items as staff when they are on their staff avatar...whenever they want, but when they are on their normal every day avatars they cant. AND, then what happens if they are no longer staff and desire said items? They have to trade for them when they could have simply tried to win them? That does not seem right to me either. There may not ever be a totally fair way to all when it comes to this.

 

[Midien]

Who is going to want to be staff if their player accounts cannot enter into player competition? If I was staff I don't think I would want to. We must remember that while yes they are staff they are also players and that the staff position in voluntary unlike most games. I can understand some of the frustration but I see issues arising no matter how competitions are done. Someone is always going to be unhappy with the way things are done. It's never going to be perfect as this is a fan creation run by fans and played by fans of the original.

If there are competions that staff are not allowed to enter, what happens if "staff favorites" win, are we going to have another bloweout? Perhaps away around this is to have a judging panel made up of non staff, non participates, people who do play but are maybe "not a part any main group of players" and who makes up this panel is only known by the executive staff. They could be players that are put forth by other players because of the critia I've stated. There could be a thread where people volenteer for such a panel, and nominations have to come from there and then sent in privately.

Frankly I wish we could just celebrate that we have the game, and be gracious to all that win items in whatever competition.

 

[Kathysides]

It seems that no matter what is done, someone is going to claim that something wasn't fair. I don't know enough about how the game works to know what is feasible and what isn't, but is it at all possible to have such a thing as an anonymous competition where all rooms are identified by a number instead of the owner's name so judges (and everyone else) truly would not know what player any room belonged to? I know it would be possible to assign a number to each entry, but is there any way in-game to then have the room "invisible" as far as being able to look it up by owner's name? If the rooms could be judged without anyone knowing who the owner is, and then after the winners are announced replace the numbers with the names, there would be much less room for people to complain that the judging was unfair or biased.

If that is not at all feasible, then I think there should be two different divisions, one for players (judged by staff) and one for staff (judged by players). I don't know how it would take anything away from the players to have a staff winner, as long as they were winning their own division and not competing against the players.

If for some reason having staff/player divisions is not desirable, then I would also would be in favor of what Midien suggested; having a judging panel made up of non-staff. I think they would need to have the maturity level to be fair and unbiased, (which in some cases has nothing to do with age) come from a cross-section of players and not one "clique", and I think they would need to be completely anonymous. No matter what is done there will still be some that complain, but I think any of these suggestions would help make the competitions seem more fair.

 

[Mothstradamus]

Ok I agree that something should be done, but from what I am hearing is that the staffs every day avatars should not be allowed to be able to obtain the same things we can try for as prizes? Really? I am not sure I see this as fair. Yes, they may be able to use those prize items as staff when they are on their staff avatar...whenever they want, but when they are on their normal every day avatars they cant. AND, then what happens if they are no longer staff and desire said items? They have to trade for them when they could have simply tried to win them? That does not seem right to me either. There may not ever be a totally fair way to all when it comes to this.

Who is going to want to be staff if their player accounts cannot enter into player competition? If I was staff I don't think I would want to. We must remember that while yes they are staff they are also players and that the staff position in voluntary unlike most games. I can understand some of the frustration but I see issues arising no matter how competitions are done. Someone is always going to be unhappy with the way things are done. It's never going to be perfect as this is a fan creation run by fans and played by fans of the original.

If there are competions that staff are not allowed to enter, what happens if "staff favorites" win, are we going to have another bloweout? Perhaps away around this is to have a judging panel made up of non staff, non participates, people who do play but are maybe "not a part any main group of players" and who makes up this panel is only known by the executive staff. They could be players that are put forth by other players because of the critia I've stated. There could be a thread where people volenteer for such a panel, and nominations have to come from there and then sent in privately.

Frankly I wish we could just celebrate that we have the game, and be gracious to all that win items in whatever competition.

It is in no way unfair to say that someone that is taking on the work of being an admin/staff for the site cannot participate. This is seen literally everywhere, in formal business and other fan-run websites as well. If you want the power, you have to take the responsibilities that come with it, even if they are "less fun" for you. It was their choice to take on a role like that for their hobby.
I'm okay with the spawning in for building game rooms, and event rooms, but there needs to be a line drawn for personal use items. This makes the issue that @MinnieMagic is bringing up moot. If someone can spawn in an item and no one is following up, then they'll spawn in extras for their non-staff avatar/account whenever they want it before they no longer have the ability to do so. That's one of the main problems going on here. It's the virtual equivalent of stealing from the till.

People in our community that have been here for some time are simply irritated with the way that everything goes around here, and we immediately assume that things are going to continue on the way that they have already proven themselves to be.
The staff/admins currently do not want to re-implement the Community Leaders, (which are basically what @Midien is talking about,) nor do they bat an eye at all of the complaints and constructive comments that are received. The majority of the community is forced to sit and accept what's going on right in front of us all, when everyone can clearly see where cheating and abuse is occurring.
I joined right after that big blowout, and I too wanted to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, but I was completely wrong.
I'm tired of fighting twice as hard for pretty much anything and everything just because I'm not an admin/staff, or a friend of an admin/staff. I'm pretty sure that most of the people that have already left the community feel the same (as evidenced by the majority of the "goodbye" posts.)

I get that we're all here for fun, but those that want to/do run the fun should not be able to participate in events that they have planned in any way shape or form other than running the event. If you don't want the work, don't take it on. It's that simple.