Do you believe in Immortality(?)

[†_Beast_†]

"Any man that fears truths or an altered reality and way of thinking opposed to their own, fears living. Any man that fears living cannot live. If you seek to truly live then you will truly live, one way or another."


The notion of everlasting immortality seems like a far-fetched, controversial topic to discuss for some. Before this is spoken about, let me make it clear...that this is a serious discussion and nothing about the rise of super hero movies and media exposure during the last two decades esp...,I.E. -someone who cannot die after being blown up, cut into little pieces etc like 'superman' in comic books for instance, being immortal in that sense. Obviously comic book heroes like that don't exist. I'm also not talking about someone that believes in reincarnation. I'm talking about a being that has lived for centuries, in this lifetime.

There's a few points I'd like to bring up why 'immortality' is real (yes even in the world of vampirism as many authors have attempted to write about) and should be understood by human beings. Why do I use the word immortal lightly, because true immortality doesn't exist in the way a person might think as someone being immortal and cannot die no matter what happens. Before those of you who attempt to judge or laugh off the thought of immortality because it disrupts your own reality of living; you should consider a few points first that I'll summarize very quickly.

1. Quantum mechanics and the physical world- I've seen more and more things being brought into light that human beings are finally starting to understand the world around them in regards to dimensions within the past few decades of published works.
A great example of this that many know - just because your eye cannot see something on the spectrum of light within human eyesight capabilities - it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist! If you don't believe that, look at it again with your own technology such as infrared - That point has been proven time and time again to human beings.
2. The most popular book ever written and sold on this planet- the bible has direct accounts of people having lived 800, 900 plus years and so on and so forth.
3. Warping the fabric of space and time - Contrary to anyone's belief it's not 'science fiction'
4. Are their real 'immortals' living today? - Yes but that's all I'll say mainly for reason no. 5
5. What do governments do when threatened by a being that is not like themselves? Simple. They study their body and then they kill them. It's sickening and evil. If enough people threaten to move you into a lab, would you go? Anyone with half a brain would keep certain things to themselves. Esp. Online! nowadays...-Example jump ahead to 2013/2014 current time and look at the NSA's Data center in America. -Cough- Ahem...even human beings don't realize the 'freedoms' they continue to give away....This I have YET to understand about people. Why give away things you've worked centuries for..?? The world has changed since the net. Some good and some very evil within it's own repressive reasoning.
6. For humans: Cloning your body parts - I don't agree with it - don't need to say why. Robotic industry/chips used to create an 'immortal' body and brain for yourself - I don't agree with it.


What are your thoughts on immortality? I'd like to know what people online believe these days due to current physical/spiritual/technological aspects. Do you believe someone is/possible that someone can/has/is live/living for many centuries?

Before you answer, really think about it. I implore you to search your mind and only give an answer after you've given it enough thought and time. So, what are your thoughts?

*disclaimer* In case this ever comes back to me and puts others in danger by pointing this out. I am in no way condoning the actions of saying immortals/'other races' for violence to make a point ( such as vampires existing.... ahem...) 'uncle Sam'* I am merely opening the mind to the possibilities of what immortality in this physical world means. So, decide for yourself. The freedom you are supposed to be given. Question life, don't walk through it blindly just because it's what you've been told, that your supposed to believe certain things.* Just because someone speaks about something different, does NOT make them crazy. Remember that. It's always harder to present the truth when its not widely accepted. <---------------LOOK AT WORLD HISTORY before you say someone is simply crazy or delusional when thinking outside society's box.

Ah, H-E-double hockey sticks, its not like it matters anyways. Probably a complete waste of man-made 'time' on here saying any of this. People are drawn to sources of personal stimulation. Not trying to understand truth and the meaning of their own lives. People do wonder and ask me why the world is so different today. It's simple - because human beings just don't care. Flat out. There's your answer. The few that do care are usually too afraid to do anything about it, against the repression and fear for speaking out that they will endure. You will not live until all your own fears have been conquered. The truth is in getting rid of any fears. Once you've done that inside and out, you will be amazed and maybe even wrestle with your own quintessential questions about the true meaning of life and how it pertains to you.

If you do decide and are moved inside to speak up though. I ask that others respect your opinion/thoughts on here while agreeing or disagreeing etc./ whatever you have to say. You will not be judged or be made fun of for simply thinking outside the box and if someone does make fun of you for it online or in reality, I can tell you its because they aren't confident in themselves and actually fear trying to understand something else. Remember that. Never ever let someone bully you in reality or online into thinking your wrong and that you should shut your mouth for thinking outside the box. You have every right as a being with free will to say and explore any possible thoughts. Nobody can take that away from you, it's your god-given right irregardless of what your trying to understand.

 

[Monorail]

I guess I will answer the question overall, address your points, and then make my own. Here we go!

It's a bit hard to answer this question, due to the fact that immortality is used above, almost relatively. Are we speaking of something that can live a long time? Or are we speaking of a hypothetical being that could live until an outside source made that impossible (i.e., no food, water, etc.)? Also, are speaking of humans? Other animals? Beings we aren't aware of? All important to consider before I delve.

I'm going to assume that we are speaking of a human-like creature that can live for, hypothetically, "forever," as long as his sources of life are in check. Basically, someone or something that can not die from simple old age. I'll use that as a basis to answer.

Personally, no, I don't see it as a feasible idea. (Here is where I will address your points.)

1. I don't agree with the premise of this argument. Essentially, I understand this as, "Well, there are things that are real that we cannot observe, therefore the lack of observance in regards to immortality means nothing to it's validity." This is a skewed analysis of the scientific method. Infrared was not discovered because a scientist said, "Hey, what if there are things we can't see?" Instead, he used what he could already observe as a reference point. In terms of human immortality, there is no base reference point. It would, in my opinion, be a "super-natural" occurrence, a term with no real place in science.

2. This would be more of an argument on the validity of the Bible, something I wont get in to. All I will say about it is it is not a direct account. The first 4 books of the Bible are believed, by biblical scholars, to be written by Moses. These books contain lineages of past descendants from the different tribes of Judah, one of which being Methuselah, the oldest human written about in the Bible, who lived to be 969 years old. Moses would have never met these men. In fact, the bible says that Moses, the man believed to have wrote the first 4 books of the Bible, lived to only be 120 years old. The lineages and ages Moses recorded passed to him, either through writings, word of mouth, or, if you prefer, divine intervention, but are in no way direct.

3. When you speak of warping, it is not space and time, it is just "Spacetime." The only way I can understand how this is connected is with an argument that time is not a constant, and can be warped the way you could cut out a section of a ruler, stick the two ends together, and claim to have a foot that is 5 inches long. Unfortunately, it would not make much sense to say that, say, a man that travels 1000 years into the future is 1000 years old. His body is, relatively, still the same age.

4. There isn't much basis for a rebuttal here, so I'll just leave this alone.

5. This one really gets me sometimes. People use the argument that things are real, and you don't hear about them because the government hides them, for whatever reason. Sure, that can be true, the government does hide things. But lets look at this logically. Issues that the government HAS tried to hide have been leaked to the public. Hell, just check out Wikileaks. But something that ALL of these leaks have in common is that none, none of them are supernatural. No aliens, no bigfoot, and no immortality. In fact, nothing that has occurred in the world in its past can be chalked up as supernatural and agreed upon by everybody.

6. Now here is kind of a different story. Although not through cloning, if you are saying that Immortality may be possible, I could see that through genetic manipulation. In fact, a species of jellyfish, Turritopsis dohrnii, also known as the "Immortal Jellyfish," already poses this ability. Essentially, it can put itself into a state of transdifferentiantion, and revert to it's early life stages, allowing for cells to alter and renew. theoretically, it could perform this process indefinitely, and live forever. Theoretically. Who's to say we can't achieve this? Who knows.

I think my argument lies in a quote by Hitchens, "What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." I really can't make a a claim about the physical world without some sort of observation, some sort of underlying reason. In fact, at the end of your statement, you say to "really think about it." For myself personally, I can't make claims on something in the physical world just because I think about it, and it makes sense.

So I would say, again, that I do not believe in any form of human immortality.

I hope this was informative!

 

[†_Beast_†]

This is a very board statement, asking about what some people think of immortality in general and to expand on those thoughts etc. In terms of anything. 'Non-human' as well etc. Obviously anyone is entitled to their opinions. All that can be asked is you think through them and decide for yourself with an open mind. I will address a few points:

1. Infrared is used as an example in terms of understanding things you cannot see but yet has been tested as being seen by the human eye. In no way, shape or form did I say scientists created infrared for the sole purpose of your quote, asking themselves that question and then suddenly coming up with a viable solution.
2. The bible (Old and New testament) was written by roughly forty people giving their contributions to it (give or take since people don't really know the exact number obviously) through divine intervention (God) as a basis for what they would write etc. Now I'm not saying this and that is fact because I'm not God nor am I completely omniscient so I cannot speak for him, but it's what most religious scholars believe anyways. There is also the documentary hypothesis (Wellhausen hypothesis) if your familiar with that.
3. In this example that you've asked about. Let's say a man is born in 1432, lives about 40 years and then ends up in 2064 by ripping through the fabric of space and time. Now...technically he is a few centuries’ years old even though he hadn't passed through the centuries himself. Time is man-made and by 'time' standards he is that old.
5. That's the basis in which you believe in immortality or not. By saying something doesn't exist because you haven't seen it, doesn't mean that it does not exist. Vampires, werewolves, witches, warlocks, demons, angels - all those things do indeed exist- once again, look at your own history if need specific examples and what these words mean. If someone believes all that or not out of their own fear or some personal refusal to think for themselves instead of what 'the world' says and tells them they must believe then that's on them. Heck, even if you only believe in the bible, look at that - it says human beings will and have been duped - past, present and future. People that even believe in certain things will tell you they don't simply because they want to trick you. They don't want you knowing. The lime light is a terrible thing in this world with horrible consequences. Religion - Faith obviously that's a great example again. There are people who've never seen Christ or Satan but they believe that they exist still. I think it’s silly when people try to pick and choose what they believe in when it comes down to things they don't understand or haven't seen with their own eyes. To expand on that example - I've had people say they believe in Jesus but don't in the devil. Well, he sure as heck believes in you whereas you want to believe it or not. - same thing with immorality.
6. Not everything has to explained through that person’s own eyes - that's why some human beings fail to think beyond their own scope of understanding and hit a limit, a ceiling that they have trouble getting past. Human beings are tested through faith. Time and time again and I'm not just talking about religion here.