Community-run

[Jasmine]

You said most successful MMO's don't deal with having their own message board. That's not true, and there's a reason they do. There's also a reason why they are successful.

People complain when they don't get what they want. That's natural. Making this a community site won't change anything.

Whispered's right... and no, most don't. You only mentioned a couple (which can't necessarily be called popular or successful), which proves that "most" don't. If most did, then there would be more lists of games, correct?

Also, before I clearly stated that I agreed with the person who was mentioning the community's maturity and such:

I'm not sure if anything can be done now, but the above is what I believe should have been done from the start. But I do know that this community surely isn't mature enough to decide something that important. That would be disastrous.

So in that sense, I agree with you. Yet again, I was saying my opinion of what should have happened in the beginning, because I'm not sure of what could be done now. I'm not condoning (but I'm also not against) "handing" over the forum... If it were done, I'm not sure it would work out any better. Some things just have to be planned far in advance and I believe that the decision of whether a forum is community run or not is one of those.

 

[Whispered]

WoW is probably the most successful MMO to date... but unfortunately there will always be people complaining on the internet. It's the easiest place to do it.

The game being successful does not correlate in any way with the forums being successful. League of Legends is a very successful game, but it's official forums are overrun with trolls, toxicity, and aren't successful at all.

 

[MagicMatt]

The game being successful does not correlate in any way with the forums being successful. League of Legends is a very successful game, but it's official forums are overrun with trolls, toxicity, and aren't successful at all.

I'm not saying MyVMK forums can't improve. If there are problems with staff members or the rules (I don't play enough to know of any issues), then they should be addressed and fixed rather than giving us the power (because we have trolls too!). The same applies for any forum.

My point in bringing up those examples was to hopefully show that there is a reason many MMOs have their own message boards. It's beneficial for both the game and the community.

So to answer the question, I think the structure of this site needs to remain the same, and we should find other ways to improve your experience.

 

[Whispered]

I'm not saying MyVMK forums can't improve. If there are problems with staff members or the rules, then they should be addressed and fixed rather than giving us the power (because we have trolls too!). The same applies for any forum.

My point in bringing up those examples was to hopefully show that there is a reason many MMOs have their own message boards. It's beneficial for both the game and the community.

So to answer the question, I think the structure of MyVMK needs to remain the same, and we should find other ways to improve your experience.

i mean, the LoL boards have made the game (not just the forums) more toxic. I feel that the boards here do the same for MyVMK...

 

[MagicMatt]

Then I can't imagine what having a community vote would do to the game.

 

[Whispered]

Then I can't imagine what having a community vote would do to the game.

community sites for LoL are run much better, are actually places where people want to be, and they're efficient, work, and are fun.

 

[MagicMatt]

Ok, but fan sites are still different from what you're proposing. You're asking if we should have elected staff... I'm pretty sure even the LoL sites don't do that.

As Halcyon already said, people are more than welcome to make their own forum. I don't think that's a bad idea, I had a lot of fun on some for VMK.

 

[Whispered]

Ok, but fan sites are still different from what you're proposing. You're asking if we should have elected staff... I'm pretty sure even the LoL sites don't do that.

As Halcyon already said, people are more than welcome to make their own forum. I don't think that's a bad idea, I had a lot of fun on some for VMK.

well, elected staff works somewhat well for Wikipedia, and it's in the top 10 sites in the web :P

I know a lot of forums don't do elected staff, but they do hold community input on staff, or the very least on rules.

On the subject of own forums, if staff are going to censor any mention of other forums as happened last time someone tried, it'll never take off.

 

[Exodus]

I completely agree with you.

When I say community run, I mean it should have been (from the beginning) a fan forum. Examples include Wizard101 Central, VMKMagic and VMKForums, VFKForums, HabboHut, etc... The majority of successful (and professional) MMOs don't deal with the hassle of trying to simultaneously run both a forum and a game because of the issues between members and staff, one of the two things being neglected, and overall, I suppose, because it's just not worth it. When you compare how fan forums are run to official forums, there's a noticeable difference. The community stress level is much lower and I believe the overall atmosphere is more fun for everyone involved. I like how they've started running forum events and contests on here, but even those are different on fan forums.

I certainly don't think this forum should just be handed over the community for them to decide who should be staff members. I'm not sure if anything can be done now, but the above is what I believe should have been done from the start. But I do know that this community surely isn't mature enough to decide something that important. That would be disastrous.

...there's less drama and issues when there isn't an official forum. But we're getting way off topic now xD

I definitely see your point of view and agree.

I personally was involved in VMKMagic and VMKForums (not as active in as the first), and Xiris was a brilliant admin. I believe over in OVMK I highly praised Xiris (who now runs DisneyMMO) to be some part of the OVMK project, he's amazing.

I believe with the rough bump and transition from OVMK to MyVMK, a community-run forum would've been impossible from the start. MyVMK is already a fan-made game... it started off so tiny, the forums were the only means for Amy to constantly keep us updated with the game's progress and release... and back then she heavily depended on the community's opinion on certain matters (such has how long the Day 1 badges & mickey ears should be given out, etc.) The direct communication between the game developer and community was crucial. Fast forward a half a year into the game's release... I still think that direct communication with the game developer and community is important. My only understanding of the sudden desire of the forums to suddenly become community-run is due to the unsatisfactory of staff or environment? I'm sure you guys are aware it's never too late to start your own MyVMK community-run forums. I think that would be the only solution for those who are unsatisfied with how things are ran here. At the point we are in now, it's silly to even suggest to turn the control of the forums over to the community while funded by the game admins? There's nothing wrong with having an official forum as well as fan-made forums.

I would also like to add, I think the Sims 3 community is a perfect example of a community-run forum (zero moderation or staff interference) yet a very humble environment with millions of users within a wide age range. However, the community is very mature and respectful toward each other... I don't know how they do it. Maybe the fact that their only forum usage requirement is to have at least one Sims 3 game registered? That definitely eliminates trolls/unwanted players. However... it doesn't appear like MyVMK has a serious problem with trolls. It appears we only have problems with a handful of players being highly unsatisfied with the current staff and rules.

 

[Whispered]

^^ But if staff are going to prohibit discussing other forums, then other forums won't really take off and have members and be active.

 

[Exodus]

^^ But if staff are going to prohibit discussing other forums, then other forums won't really take off and have members and be active.

Yes, that would be a bummer. However, if I'm not mistaken, VMKMagic and VMKForums (still to date) prohibited speaking of other VMK fan-made forums. Yet, they were both very successful. If you do a dang fine job at running your own fan-made forums... your number of registered members will reflect that.

From what I see, you want the OFFICIAL MyVMK forums to be handed over to the community rather than starting your own forums due to the fact you wouldn't be able to get enough support for your new forums aka you simply want mods and admins out of the picture and it's a party. Sorry, but that's absurd.

 

[Whispered]

Yes, that would be a bummer. However, if I'm not mistaken, VMKMagic and VMKForums (still to date) prohibited speaking of other VMK fan-made forums. Yet, they were both very successful. If you do a dang fine job at running your own fan-made forums... your number of registered members will reflect that.

From what I see, you want the OFFICIAL MyVMK forums to be handed over to the community rather than starting your own forums due to the fact you wouldn't be able to get enough support for your new forums aka you simply want mods and admins out of the picture and it's a party. Sorry, but that's absurd.

No, I want the community to have input on, at the very least, the rules that are governing it (beyond a few necessary ones like "no spam", "no bots", "don't curse"), and preferably on the staff as well. I'm not saying hold votes and elections necessarily, but have some official, easy, anonymous way for supporting/going against staff options.

I'm not suggesting anarchy at all.

 

[Exodus]

No, I want the community to have input on, at the very least, the rules that are governing it (beyond a few necessary ones like "no spam", "no bots", "don't curse"), and preferably on the staff as well. I'm not saying hold votes and elections necessarily, but have some official, easy, anonymous way for supporting/going against staff options.

I'm not suggesting anarchy at all.

The thing is... it's merely a handful of members who want this. I'm pretty sure 90% of the community could care less, they're just glad their childhood game is back?

Let's not try to suggest big changes to the future of how the forums might run... unnecessary stress to the admins. I personally think they could care less as well. Amy could stop funding the forums any day if she likes. You have to understand, we're a tiny community running on personal funds by the developer. Let's just reevaluate our purpose for even being on the MyVMK forums?

 

[Jasmine]

I definitely see your point of view and agree.

I personally was involved in VMKMagic and VMKForums (not as active in as the first), and Xiris was a brilliant admin. I believe over in OVMK I highly praised Xiris (who now runs DisneyMMO) to be some part of the OVMK project, he's amazing.

I believe with the rough bump and transition from OVMK to MyVMK, a community-run forum would've been impossible from the start. MyVMK is already a fan-made game... it started off so tiny, the forums were the only means for Amy to constantly keep us updated with the game's progress and release... and back then she heavily depended on the community's opinion on certain matters (such has how long the Day 1 badges & mickey ears should be given out, etc.) The direct communication between the game developer and community was crucial. Fast forward a half a year into the game's release... I still think that direct communication with the game developer and community is important. My only understanding of the sudden desire of the forums to suddenly become community-run is due to the unsatisfactory of staff or environment? I'm sure you guys are aware it's never too late to start your own MyVMK community-run forums. I think that would be the only solution for those who are unsatisfied with how things are ran here. At the point we are in now, it's silly to even suggest to turn the control of the forums over to the community while funded by the game admins? There's nothing wrong with having an official forum as well as fan-made forums.

I would also like to add, I think the Sims 3 community is a perfect example of a community-run forum (zero moderation or staff interference) yet a very humble environment with millions of users within a wide age range. However, the community is very mature and respectful toward each other... I don't know how they do it. Maybe the fact that their only forum usage requirement is to have at least one Sims 3 game registered? That definitely eliminates trolls/unwanted players. However... it doesn't appear like MyVMK has a serious problem with trolls. It appears we only have problems with a handful of players being highly unsatisfied with the current staff and rules.

I definitely think it was possible from the beginning... because like it's been said before, Amy and Grizzly would have been involved with this fan forum. They just wouldn't have run it - but they still could have posted polls and announcements for the game. I used to be on a forum for a game called "ChitChatCity". There was a fan forum (made by the owners of VFKF) and the game developer was relatively active early on in the life of the game... it worked fine. That fan forum has since closed (all of the VFKF sister sites have) and the owner has his own forum, but I can't state how it's gone over there... it's always been a really tiny community and I've never agreed about the way it was run either. (Children as young as 8 and 9 years old were moderators, there was no report button, etc...)

(And no, as I said before, this has been my stance since day 1; in fact, I PMed Amy about it back when the game was MMK.)

As for having a community and official forum, sadly, it'll never work. People aren't interested in joining two MyVMK forums and since this is the official forum (and if you aren't a part of it, you often miss out on a lot), then they're likely to sway towards this one. It's been tried before, actually, and that's the reason why it won't work. Whispered is also right about not being able to speak about fan forums.

Yes, and like I brought up Meez, which is another game that has a forum. I never said it was impossible, merely that most games don't even attempt to run a forum and a game. I think the difference for The Sims is that it's not an MMO, and I'm specifically talking about those. There's less pressure on the developers when it comes to video games as compared to MMOs. (Also, The Sim's moderators are actually hired and paid for what they do - or so I believe. I think that's a big difference.)

"At the point we are in now, it's silly to even suggest to turn the control of the forums over to the community while funded by the game admins? "
I'm not sure if that was to me or Whispered, because I've already said I don't necessarily agree with that idea.

 

[Fiyero]

For the people saying "You don't have to stay. You can make your own forums", I've seen two fan forums that tried to get off the ground already, and they both failed to get members and that's the way it's gonna be for a couple of reasons.

1) The game base isn't big enough to allow for multiple communities for players to be split among

2) Most people are already to dug into this forum to leave at this point

The only way I see a fan forums working in the future is if they get rid of these official forums and publicly endorse a site.

 

[Littlebelle]

Why stir the pot. This forum has enough issues and this does not help. There is too much immaturity and this would turn into a popularity election. half the people never come to these forums because of the way they have been treated. So I no it should stay the same end of story.

What this forum tends to forget is the vast age difference you have here. I think much more than any other gaming site. I do not trust this to be run by the community. There are too many opposing views. Too many self centered people and not enough that truly will work hard to make it work. If you truly welcomed and tried to relate to all then half would not be missing. Creating a community lead in my opinion would just make it worse.

This thread just stirs up people's emotions and is not necessary. If you are not happy really go make your own forum and take all the people who do not like how this one is run. I am just tired of seeing negative after negative on moderation complaints, etc.

This thread just upsets me.

 

[Oreo]

Why stir the pot. This forum has enough issues and this does not help. There is too much immaturity and this would turn into a popularity election. have the people never come to these forums because of the way they have been treated. So I no it should stay the same end of story.

What this forum tends to forget is the vast age difference you have here. I think much more than any other gaming site. I do not trust this to be run by the community. There are too many opposing views. Too many self centered people and not enough that truly will work hard to make it work. If you truly welcomed and tried to relate to all then half would not be missing. Creating a community lead in my opinion would just make it worse.

This thread just stirs up people's emotions and is not necessary. If you are not happy really go make your own forum and take all the people who do not like how this one is run. I am just tired of seeing negative after negative on moderation complaints, etc.

This thread just upsets me.

This, this, this. A thousand times this! Well said LittleBelle.

Spoiler

 

[Miss]

I feel if it were to be fully community ran and we elected staff, it would end up being a popularity contest, and the real spirit of the forums would be overlooked/ignored.

 

[Halcyon]

@Halcyon could you provide some reasoning why it is not possible to turn control of the forums over to the community, maybe in a phased approach or with some oversight?

Well these are Amy's forums. Should she choose to change then over, then she is open to. However, this will not happen. Amy is happy with how things are run on the forums - this is how Amy wants things to stay. Herself and Grizzly make sure the staff of the forum do as they wish - we regularly chat with them about how things are done/changes to be made before doing anything.

As I said Whispered, should you wish to set up your own forums then you are more than welcome to.

 

[Whispered]

Well these are Amy's forums. Should she choose to change then over, then she is open to. However, this will not happen. Amy is happy with how things are run on the forums - this is how Amy wants things to stay. Herself and Grizzly make sure the staff of the forum do as they wish - we regularly chat with them about how things are done/changes to be made before doing anything.

As I said Whispered, should you wish to set up your own forums then you are more than welcome to.

So I assume you're willing to go on the record as saying you've chatted with the other staff before you made your first post in this thread? It doesn't appear that way to me, and another staff member has been much more responsive and open to discussing this idea with other staff.