Continuity Through Main Page and Forum

Eliz · May 14, 2014

We aren't buying players, Gandalf. The game "attracts" players, the forums are just here to facilitate the player base.. That said, it really isn't the publics concern on if we decide to hire a new staff member or not, and we're definitely not going to be pushed into doing it by something like a simple forum theme..

EDIT: And if the administration team "have things going on that are keeping them from devoting the required time to this forum" then, honestly, the forum would be 404ing, 500ing, all sorts of ing. We are indeed contributing the required time needed for the forums to operate.

Fiyero · May 14, 2014

Eliz said:

I'm not asking you to buy players. But keeping a nice professional forum theme is important to a community, even one that is focused on the game more than the forum.

And wrong, to be perfectly frank. It is the publics concern on the hiring of new Staff. This forum is a servant to the people who use it. We have the right to know about forum hirings and firings, and we have a right to question when there is a need for new Staff. While we might not know quite as much as you for the need of the staff or not, when it becomes blatantly obvious (as you have made it with your previous posts) that certain staff members aren't devoting as much time as used to, it is the publics concern and responsibility to call for certain changes, such as hiring new Staff to pick up some slack.

No one is calling any of the Staff out for having another life and having things come up. Of course it's gonna happen, it happens to everyone. But when things like that happen, someone needs to be able to step in and take care of it. The forum just not 404ing and 500ing is not the required time for keeping up a forums. You have to devote time to new features and other things, not just general upkeep.

And I have worked with forums and communities before. Please do not think I'm just pulling this out of my behind and trying to start things with the Staff/other members. I know what kind of time is required for a community, and any volunteer positions. Time has to be set aside for improvement and changes, not just upkeep and keeping the status quo. I admire the Staff team. They do a lot for this community. I understand that. But when the community starts to really fall to the very bottom of their priorities because they have other things going on in their lives, or their computer is busted and it is inhibiting their ability to work, something needs to change.

Goddess · May 14, 2014

The melodrama of this is so real right now. :sneaky:

I think what [MENTION=490]Kaeliah[/MENTION] said in the beginning is 100% right.

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Gandalf said:

Thank you Gandalf. Took the words right outta my mouth.

I don't recall once seeing anyone that suggested hiring or contracting people to design and code the themes (myself incuded) - to just rush off and find anybody and everybody and hire them. That's obviously completely unrealistic. You have to go through the hiring process, which yes takes some effort, but you don't build progress from nothing, you build it from action.

And I said before on this thread that of course things happen that are out of our control, and it's completely understandable that sometimes these things take precedence. But when you make a commitment to a role of authority, and you have certain responsibilities and duties that fall wayward because of things happening in your own life, it's your responsibility to find the appropriate replacement to carry on your job while you're dealing with other things. Or at the very least, discuss with your other "co-mods" that you're having trouble, and you need some time away from the forums so they may find someone to take over your job while you're away.

I mean no disrespect by that, it's called professional responsibility and courtesy. Just because a position is voluntary, doesn't mean it can be disregarded whenever. A commitment is a commitment however you want to spin it, dress it up, take it to prom what have you.

Everyone here is acting like all of these requests are obscenely unreasonable, and highly disrespectful towards the staff; etc, etc. This simply isn't the case. The only reason this is becoming a fight is because people are making assumptions & perceptions of what is being said rather than what is actually going on. Can we not turn this in to WW3? We're just trying to get some progress made because we care about the community too.

Eliz · May 14, 2014

Goddess said:

The melodrama of this is so real right now. :sneaky:

I think what [MENTION=490]Kaeliah[/MENTION] said in the beginning is 100% right.

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Thank you Gandalf. Took the words right outta my mouth.

I don't recall once seeing anyone that suggested hiring or contracting people to design and code the themes (myself incuded) - to just rush off and find anybody and everybody and hire them. That's obviously completely unrealistic. You have to go through the hiring process, which yes takes some effort, but you don't build progress from nothing, you build it from action.

And I said before on this thread that of course things happen that are out of our control, and it's completely understandable that sometimes these things take precedence. But when you make a commitment to a role of authority, and you have certain responsibilities and duties that fall wayward because of things happening in your own life, it's your responsibility to find the appropriate replacement to carry on your job while you're dealing with other things. Or at the very least, discuss with your other "co-mods" that you're having trouble, and you need some time away from the forums so they may find someone to take over your job while you're away.

I mean no disrespect by that, it's called professional responsibility and courtesy. Just because a position is voluntary, doesn't mean it can be disregarded whenever. A commitment is a commitment however you want to spin it, dress it up, take it to prom what have you.

Everyone here is acting like all of these requests are obscenely unreasonable, and highly disrespectful towards the staff; etc, etc. This simply isn't the case. The only reason this is becoming a fight is because people are making assumptions & perceptions of what is being said rather than what is actually going on. Can we not turn this in to WW3? We're just trying to get some progress made because we care about the community too.

But then you fail to realize that, even though I'm going through all this right now, I still am doing stuff for the forums. I host the forums, I make sure they stay online, I make sure bugs get fixed and rules are enforced. Just because you guys don't see it happening doesn't mean it's not happening.

Goddess · May 14, 2014

Eliz said:

Well then I'm slightly confused. From what you said here:

Eliz said:

Gave me the impression that because of events happening in your real life and such, you are unable to devote as much time to working on these sort of improvements, and without a computer you are no longer able to work on such projects.

However, if you do still have time available to devote to the forums that's wonderful. And I thank you for still making sure to take time for the forums in your hectic schedule.

But we're still left with the issue of there evidently being no one available on the current staff team to design the forum skin and then code it. The main thing right now is, this is our problem so how can we fix it?

Kaeliah · May 14, 2014

Eliz said:

We're not oblivious to anything that goes on behind-the-scenes, but ok.

Thank you Gandalf and Goddess for beautifully explaining your points :hat:

Eliz · May 14, 2014

Kaeliah said:

You're missing our point... we're not oblivious to anything that goes on behind-the-scenes. We know what staff do, whether it be fixing bugs/glitches, overseeing forum activity, and ensuring that the forum's host is stable and reliable 24/7. I'm sure a couple of us understand what being an administrator is like. I've had to work with a large playerbase, and that means handling hundreds of reports that are sent in everyday, pinpointing bugs/glitches/dupes, managing a VPS, etc. and I can tell you that the private servers I have worked with are much more difficult to manage than a VMK server. You don't have to believe what we're saying, but all I want to say to you is if you keep dodging and avoiding situations like this where things _must_ be done, this forum is not going to get anywhere. The forums are connected to the game because that's one of the main ways of communication for people -- the forums is what gives birth to thousands of trades, contests, giveaways, etc. We are!
n't just talking about "simply installing a pretty little theme". It's more than just a theme, and you should know that.

If you need *help*, then you should know exactly what to do. I'm outta here before I'm told "you don't understand" again. Thank you Gandalf and Goddess for beautifully explaining your points :hat:

We understand, but the forum skin is not as important as you seem to think it is..

Goddess · May 14, 2014

Eliz said:

Well now here's my question. If that's so, then what was the point of this?

Forum Skin - We Want Your Help

Whispered · May 14, 2014

How about this: Someone code and make a theme. PM Silhouette and Eliz. They'll install it.

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Goddess said:

They were asking for help. They didn't get anyone qualified/trustworthy enough to make a good theme for the forums, or for whatever reason didn't work on it.

Goddess · May 14, 2014

Whispered said:

That was incredibly rude and uncalled for. You may not care about some things like this and that's fine, but you definitely don't have to be disrespectful because of it. I'm sure someone would make a skin and code it if they were certain their time and hard work wouldn't be wasted.

And, I was asking for direct information from Eliz because she's a staff member so she might have proper information as to what happened to that project, but thank you for your contribution.

Fiyero · May 14, 2014

Whispered said:

Well lucky for you, I PM'D Silhouette and offered my help in the matter. She has passed this on to the Administrators. So yes, I am offering my help in the matter. However, I don't make graphics, so I need the help of other members to provide me with that. Silhouette said she had tons of premade graphics ready to go.

And personally, I'm not going to make a skin if they aren't going to use it. As said, making a skin takes a large amount of time and investment to get it right.

I am offering my help, but it seems by the response of Eliz, they aren't too easy to trust others. So if they don't want to use me, I'm gonna make it known that things to need to change.

EDIT: But actually, your first statement really made me laugh. Have you not read the thread at all? Eliz specifically stated that they won't just be trusting anyone to make a theme. They aren't just gonna get a theme sent in and install it. They won't trustworthy people they have approved for this project.

CurleeQ · May 14, 2014

Hi Everyone,

I had to edit a few posts due to some rudeness/flaming/disrespect. While we value feedback, we ask that you remain respectful of other member's opinions.

Thanks!

Oreo · May 14, 2014

kalyee said:

Just reading over this thread, the first thing in my mind was, "Does no one understand the hiring process?"
Even if it's just gaining access to controls specifically related to design, that's a huge amount of trust to put in someone without going through lots of qualified candidates to make sure you not only have a good fit for the skilled aspects, but to be sure you won't have someone messing around or posting up explicit images without consent.

And like, yeah, it's a free game, hold your horses. I get it, just because it's free doesn't mean nothing should get done, but it isn't like they're doing nothing. These people don't have to do this, as it's been stated, they do have lives outside of this, and they're entitled to have both. I don't know a lot of people who can dedicate 100% of their time and energy to something that doesn't pay - like a forum for an online game. Some can, but it's few and far between because, as I said, most people have lives.
It'd be nice to eventually see the forum look a little more snazzy, but that's not even in my mind when I'm browsing. It's just a forum, the look doesn't matter to me nearly as much as the content, and I'm just grateful people are taking their time to do this without a cent in return - and often times, without any gratitude.

If it was a huge thing, like the game or forum consistently crashing, or being hacked, or misused, whatever, I'd put a little more importance into it, but it's just not as pressing as a lot of other things that could use to be implemented. And even still, it is up to none of us what is of most importance on the staffs list. If you don't like how the forum is, you can always start your own forum and implement the features you'd like to see.

Essentially this. Everybody take a breather...ya'll are getting way to worked up over something so simple. Hugs. :hug:

Whispered · May 14, 2014

It takes a lot less time to review someone's code than it does to code it from scratch. Sure they won't just install it, but assuming you do nothing wrong it's easier to review code than code it from scratch.

Jasmine · May 14, 2014

Skinning mainly consists of changing stylevars (which are essentially linked to CSS stylesheets - if you've ever manipulated a tumblr theme, you've got the basic feel of it). Sure, templates can be edited to add CSS, but that doesn't have to be done unless you choose to. Technically speaking, a skin could be made just by changing stylevars (which can take a lot of time on its own). However, you'll see this more often in vB4 than you do in vB3.

vBulletin skins are saved as XMLs. They look like this when you open them up (I would've used OVMKF's skin as an example if the site wasn't down. It involved a lot of CSS and had an absolutely beautiful design):

/*VB4 SKIN WITH FEW TEMPLATES EDITED* - Look at this one first, it's a lot easier to understand/

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?>

-<style type="custom" product="vbulletin" vbversion="4.2.0" name="Happy Holidays - 2013">

-<templategroup name="Ungrouped Templates {1}">

-<template name="additional.css" version="4.2.0" username="Jasmine" date="1385489314" templatetype="template">

<![CDATA[/*Disables all shadows*/ * { box-shadow: none !important; } * { -webkit-box-shadow: none !important; } /*Moves profile sidebar to the right*/ .member_tabs { margin-right: 280px !important; margin-left: 0; } #userprof_content_container { margin-left: 0px !important; float: none; } #sidebar_container.member_summary { clear: left !important; float: right !important; }]]> <---- This is an example of a template being edited and custom CSS being added --->

</template>

</templategroup>

<stylevardfns> </stylevardfns>

-<stylevars> <--- This is telling the person reading the XML which stylevars have been changed. However, they can also view this once they edit the skin inside the ACP. The specific details of what was changed, the value, is encoded. However, if you know what it's encoded in, you might be able to find a decoder. --->

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<stylevar name="pagination_current_background" value="YTo2OntzOjU6InVuaXRzIjtzOjA6IiI7czo1OiJjb2xvciI7czo3OiIjMTI5MTFlIjtzOjU6ImltYWdlIjtzOjM3OiJ1cmwoaW1hZ2VzL2J1dHRvbnMvbmV3YnRuX21pZGRsZS5wbmcpIjtzOjY6InJlcGVhdCI7czo4OiJyZXBlYXQteCI7czoxOiJ4IjtzOjA6IiI7czoxOiJ5IjtzOjA6IiI7fQ=="/>

<stylevar name="pagination_current_border" value="YTo0OntzOjU6InVuaXRzIjtzOjI6InB4IjtzOjU6IndpZHRoIjtzOjE6IjEiO3M6NToic3R5bGUiO3M6NToic29saWQiO3M6NToiY29sb3IiO3M6NzoiIzEyOTExZSI7fQ=="/>

<stylevar name="pagination_hover_border"

/*vBULLETIN 3.8.x SKIN WITH A LOT OF TEMPLATES EDITED*/

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?>

-<style type="custom" product="vbulletin" vbversion="3.8.7" name="basketball">

-<templategroup name="CSS Special Templates">

-<template name=".alt1, .alt1Active" version="" username="sultantheme" date="1235831880" templatetype="css">

<![CDATA[a:7:{s:10:"background";s:7:"#fff9db";s:5:"color";s:7:"#000000";s:4:"font";a:3:{s:5:"style";s:0:"";s:4:"size";s:0:"";s:6:"family";s:0:"";}s:5:"EXTRA";s:0:"";s:6:"LINK_N";a:3:{s:10:"background";s:0:"";s:5:"color";s:0:"";s:15:"text-decoration";s:0:"";}s:6:"LINK_V";a:3:{s:10:"background";s:0:"";s:5:"color";s:0:"";s:15:"text-decoration";s:0:"";}s:6:"LINK_M";a:3:{s:10:"background";s:0:"";s:5:"color";s:0:"";s:15:"text-decoration";s:0:"";}}]]>

</template>

-<template name=".alt2, .alt2Active" version="" username="sultantheme" date="1235830715" templatetype="css">

<![CDATA[a:7:{s:10:"background";s:7:"#fdf3c5";s:5:"color";s:7:"#000000";s:4:"font";a:3:{s:5:"style";s:0:"";s:4:"size";s:0:"";s:6:"family";s:0:"";}s:5:"EXTRA";s:0:"";s:6:"LINK_N";a:3:{s:10:"background";s:0:"";s:5:"color";s:0:"";s:15:"text-decoration";s:0:"";}s:6:"LINK_V";a:3:{s:10:"background";s:0:"";s:5:"color";s:0:"";s:15:"text-decoration";s:0:"";}s:6:"LINK_M";a:3:{s:10:"background";s:0:"";s:5:"color";s:0:"";s:15:"text-decoration";s:0:"";}}]]>

</template>

-<template name=".fjsel" version="" username="sultantheme" date="1235832311" templatetype="css">

<![CDATA[a:2:{s:10:"background";s:7:"#FFFFCC";s:5:"color";s:7:"#943b04";}]]>

</template>

-<template name=".page" version="" username="sultantheme" date="1235821365" templatetype="css">

<![CDATA[a:7:{s:10:"background";s:11:"transparent";s:5:"color";s:7:"#000000";s:4:"font";a:3:{s:5:"style";s:0:"";s:4:"size";s:0:"";s:6:"family";s:0:"";}s:5:"EXTRA";s:0:"";s:6:"LINK_N";a:3:{s:10:"background";s:0:"";s:5:"color";s:0:"";s:15:"text-decoration";s:0:"";}s:6:"LINK_V";a:3:{s:10:"background";s:0:"";s:5:"color";s:0:"";s:15:"text-decoration";s:0:"";}s:6:"LINK_M";a:3:{s:10:"background";s:0:"";s:5:"color";s:0:"";s:15:"text-decoration";s:0:"";}}]]>

</template>

-<template name=".panel" version="" username="sultantheme" date="1235831880" templatetype="css">

<![CDATA[a:7:{s:10:"background";s:7:"#fff9db";s:5:"color";s:7:"#000000";s:4:"font";a:3:{s:5:"style";s:0:"";s:4:"size";s:0:"";s:6:"family";s:0:"";}s:5:"EXTRA";s:35:"padding: 10px; border: 2px outset;";s:6:"LINK_N";a:3:{s:10:"background";s:0:"";s:5:"color";s:0:"";s:15:"text-decoration";s:0:"";}s:6:"LINK_V";a:3:{s:10:"background";s:0:"";s:5:"color";s:0:"";s:15:"text-decoration";s:0:"";}s:6:"LINK_M";a:3:{s:10:"background";s:0:"";s:5:"color";s:0:"";s:15:"text-decoration";s:0:"";}}]]>

</template>

-<template name=".panelsurround" version="" username="sultantheme" date="1235831880" templatetype="css">

<![CDATA[a:4:{s:10:"background";s:7:"#fdf3c5";s:5:"color";s:7:"#000000";s:4:"font";a:3:{s:5:"style";s:0:"";s:4:"size";s:0:"";s:6:"family";s:0:"";}s:5:"EXTRA";s:0:"";}]]>

</template>

-<template name=".tborder" version="" username="sultantheme" date="1235830661" templatetype="css">

<![CDATA[a:4:{s:10:"background";s:7:"#f5c660";s:5:"color";s:7:"#000000";s:4:"font";a:3:{s:5:"style";s:0:"";s:4:"size";s:0:"";s:6:"family";s:0:"";}s:5:"EXTRA";s:26:"border: 1px solid #a74208;";}]]>

</template>

-<template name=".tcat" version="" username="sultantheme" date="1235832311" templatetype="css">

<![CDATA[a:7:{s:10:"background";s:69:"#e5b408 url(images/basketball/basketball_catbg.gif) repeat-x top left";s:5:"color";s:7:"#943b04";s:4:"font";a:3:{s:5:"style";s:4:"bold";s:4:"size";s:4:"10pt";s:6:"family";s:70:"verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif";}s:5:"EXTRA";s:0:"";s:6:"LINK_N";a:3:{s:10:"background";s:0:"";s:5:"color";s:7:"#943b04";s:15:"text-decoration";s:4:"none";}s:6:"LINK_V";a:3:{s:10:"background";s:0:"";s:5:"color";s:7:"#943b04";s:15:"text-decoration";s:4:"none";}s:6:"LINK_M";a:3:{s:10:"background";s:0:"";s:5:"color";s:7:"#663300";s:15:"text-decoration";s:9:"underline";}}]]>

</template>

-<template name=".tfoot" version="" username="sultantheme" date="1235830661" templatetype="css">

<![CDATA[a:7:{s:10:"background";s:70:"#943b04 url(images/basketball/basketball_headbg.gif) repeat-x top left";s:5:"color";s:7:"#e5c60c";s:4:"font";a:3:{s:5:"style";s:0:"";s:4:"size";s:0:"";s:6:"family";s:0:"";}s:5:"EXTRA";s:0:"";s:6:"LINK_N";a:3:{s:10:"background";s:0:"";s:5:"color";s:7:"#e5c60c";s:15:"text-decoration";s:0:"";}s:6:"LINK_V";a:3:{s:10:"background";s:0:"";s:5:"color";s:7:"#e5c60c";s:15:"text-decoration";s:0:"";}s:6:"LINK_M";a:3:{s:10:"background";s:0:"";s:5:"color";s:7:"#FFFF66";s:15:"text-decoration";s:0:"";}}]]>

</template>

-<template name=".thead" version="" username="sultantheme" date="1235830661" templatetype="css">

<![CDATA[a:7:{s:10:"background";s:70:"#943b04 url(images/basketball/basketball_headbg.gif) repeat-x top left";s:5:"color";s:7:"#e5c60c";s:4:"font";a:3:{s:5:"style";s:4:"bold";s:4:"size";s:4:"11px";s:6:"family";s:78:"tahoma, verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif";}s:5:"EXTRA";s:0:"";s:6:"LINK_N";a:3:{s:10:"background";s:0:"";s:5:"color";s:7:"#e5c60c";s:15:"text-decoration";s:0:"";}s:6:"LINK_V";a:3:{s:10:"background";s:0:"";s:5:"color";s:7:"#e5c60c";s:15:"text-decoration";s:0:"";}s:6:"LINK_M";a:3:{s:10:"background";s:0:"";s:5:"color";s:7:"#FFFF00";s:15:"text-decoration";s:0:"";}}]]>

</template>

-<template name=".time" version="" username="sultantheme" date="1235831536" templatetype="css">

<![CDATA[a:4:{s:10:"background";s:0:"";s:5:"color";s:7:"#4c2c04";s:4:"font";a:3:{s:5:"style";s:0:"";s:4:"size";s:0:"";s:6:"family";s:0:"";}s:5:"EXTRA";s:0:"";}]]>

</template>

-<template name=".vbmenu_control" version="" username="sultantheme" date="1235832311" templatetype="css">

<![CDATA[a:7:{s:10:"background";s:69:"#e5b408 url(images/basketball/basketball_catbg.gif) repeat-x top left";s:5:"color";s:7:"#943b04";s:4:"font";a:3:{s:5:"style";s:4:"bold";s:4:"size";s:4:"11px";s:6:"family";s:78:"tahoma, verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif";}s:5:"EXTRA";s:47:"padding: 3px 6px 3px 6px; white-space: nowrap;";s:6:"LINK_N";a:3:{s:10:"background";s:0:"";s:5:"color";s:7:"#943b04";s:15:"text-decoration";s:4:"none";}s:6:"LINK_V";a:3:{s:10:"background";s:0:"";s:5:"color";s:7:"#943b04";s:15:"text-decoration";s:4:"none";}s:6:"LINK_M";a:3:{s:10:"background";s:0:"";s:5:"color";s:7:"#660000";s:15:"text-decoration";s:9:"underline";}}]]>

</template>

-<template name=".vbmenu_hilite" version="" username="sultantheme" date="1235832311" templatetype="css">

<![CDATA[a:7:{s:10:"background";s:7:"#f5c660";s:5:"color";s:7:"#000000";s:4:"font";a:3:{s:5:"style";s:0:"";s:4:"size";s:4:"11px";s:6:"family";s:70:"verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif";}s:5:"EXTRA";s:38:"white-space: nowrap; cursor: pointer;";s:6:"LINK_N";a:3:{s:10:"background";s:0:"";s:5:"color";s:7:"#943b04";s:15:"text-decoration";s:4:"none";}s:6:"LINK_V";a:3:{s:10:"background";s:0:"";s:5:"color";s:7:"#943b04";s:15:"text-decoration";s:4:"none";}s:6:"LINK_M";a:3:{s:10:"background";s:0:"";s:5:"color";s:7:"#990000";s:15:"text-decoration";s:4:"none";}}]]>

</template>

-<template name=".vbmenu_option" version="" username="sultantheme" date="1235832311" templatetype="css">

<![CDATA[a:7:{s:10:"background";s:7:"#fdf3c5";s:5:"color";s:7:"#000000";s:4:"font";a:3:{s:5:"style";s:0:"";s:4:"size";s:4:"11px";s:6:"family";s:70:"verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif";}s:5:"EXTRA";s:38:"white-space: nowrap; cursor: pointer;";s:6:"LINK_N";a:3:{s:10:"background";s:0:"";s:5:"color";s:7:"#943b04";s:15:"text-decoration";s:4:"none";}s:6:"LINK_V";a:3:{s:10:"background";s:0:"";s:5:"color";s:7:"#943b04";s:15:"text-decoration";s:4:"none";}s:6:"LINK_M";a:3:{s:10:"background";s:0:"";s:5:"color";s:7:"#990000";s:15:"text-decoration";s:4:"none";}}]]>

</template>

-<template name=".vbmenu_popup" version="" username="sultantheme" date="1235832311" templatetype="css">

<![CDATA[a:4:{s:10:"background";s:7:"#f5c660";s:5:"color";s:7:"#000000";s:4:"font";a:3:{s:5:"style";s:0:"";s:4:"size";s:0:"";s:6:"family";s:0:"";}s:5:"EXTRA";s:26:"border: 1px solid #a74208;";}]]>

</template>

-<template name="body" version="" username="sultantheme" date="1235831963" templatetype="css">

<![CDATA[a:7:{s:10:"background";s:7:"#443621";s:5:"color";s:7:"#000000";s:4:"font";a:3:{s:5:"style";s:0:"";s:4:"size";s:4:"10pt";s:6:"family";s:70:"verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif";}s:5:"EXTRA";s:122:" background-image: url(images/basketball/basketball_bg.gif); background-repeat: repeat; margin: 10px; padding: 10px;";s:6:"LINK_N";a:3:{s:10:"background";s:0:"";s:5:"color";s:7:"#aa3400";s:15:"text-decoration";s:4:"none";}s:6:"LINK_V";a:3:{s:10:"background";s:0:"";s:5:"color";s:7:"#aa3400";s:15:"text-decoration";s:4:"none";}s:6:"LINK_M";a:3:{s:10:"background";s:0:"";s:5:"color";s:7:"#943b04";s:15:"text-decoration";s:9:"underline";}}]]>

</template>

-<template name="EXTRA2" version="" username="sultantheme" date="1235821365" templatetype="css">

<![CDATA[a:1:{s:3:"all";s:1561:".headerwrap { background-image: url(images/basketball/basketball_headerbg.gif); background-repeat: repeat-x; height: 145px; } .navwrap { background-image: url(images/basketball/basketball_navbg.gif); background-repeat: repeat-x; height: 39px; } .cwrap { background-color: #DC9E06; background-image: url(images/basketball/basketball_cbg.gif); background-repeat: repeat-x; } .footwrap { background-image: url(images/basketball/basketball_footbg.gif); background-repeat: repeat-x; height: 25px; } .footL { background-image: url(images/basketball/basketball_footL.gif); background-repeat: no-repeat; height: 25px; width: 21px; } .headerL { background-image: url(images/basketball/basketball_headerL.jpg); background-repeat: no-repeat; height: 145px; width: 433px; } .headerR { background-image: url(images/basketball/basketball_headerR.jpg); background-repeat: no-repeat; height: 145px; width: 353px; } .footR { background-image: url(images/basketball/basketball_footR.gif); background-repeat: no-repeat; height: 25px; width: 21px; } #navstyle{ font-family:Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; color: #000000; margin-top:0px; font-weight: bold; } #navstyle a{ font-family:Tahoma,Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; color: #492C04; text-decoration: none; font-weight: bold; } #navstyle a:hover{ font-family:Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 11px; color: #86400D; text-decoration: underline; font-weight: bold; } ";}]]>

</template>

-<template name="legend" version="" username="sultantheme" date="1235831536" templatetype="css">

<![CDATA[a:4:{s:10:"background";s:0:"";s:5:"color";s:7:"#4c2c04";s:4:"font";a:3:{s:5:"style";s:0:"";s:4:"size";s:4:"11px";s:6:"family";s:78:"tahoma, verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif";}s:5:"EXTRA";s:0:"";}]]>

</template>

</templategroup>

-<templategroup name="StyleVar Special Templates">

-<template name="imgdir_button" version="" username="sultantheme" date="1235923848" templatetype="stylevar">

<![CDATA[images/basketball/buttons]]>

</template>

-<template name="imgdir_misc" version="" username="sultantheme" date="1235923848" templatetype="stylevar">

<![CDATA[images/basketball/misc]]>

</template>

-<template name="imgdir_statusicon" version="" username="sultantheme" date="1235923848" templatetype="stylevar">

<![CDATA[images/basketball/statusicon]]>

</template>

</templategroup>

-<templategroup name="Forum Home">

-<template name="FORUMHOME" version="3.8.5" username="napy8gen" date="1269681331" templatetype="template">

<![CDATA[$stylevar[htmldoctype] <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" dir="$stylevar[textdirection]" lang="$stylevar[languagecode]"> <head>  <meta http-equiv="Pragma" content="no-cache" /> <meta http-equiv="Expires" content="-1" /> <meta http-equiv="Cache-Control" content="no-cache" />  $headinclude <title><phrase 1="$vboptions[bbtitle]">$vbphrase[x_powered_by_vbulletin]</phrase></title> </head> <body> $header $navbar <if condition="$show['guest']">  <table class="tborder" cellpadding="$stylevar[cellpadding]" cellspacing="$stylevar[cellspacing]" border="0" width="100%" align="center"> <tr> <td class="tcat"><phrase 1="$vboptions[bbtitle]">$vbphrase[welcome_to_the_x]</phrase></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="alt1"> <phrase 1="faq.php$session[sessionurl_q]" 2="register.php$session[sessionurl_q]">$vbphrase[first_visit_message]</phrase> </td> </tr> </table>  <br /> </if>  <table class="tborder" cellpadding="$stylevar[cellpadding]" cellspacing="$stylevar[cellspacing]" border="0" width="100%" align="center"> <thead> <tr align="center"> <td class="thead"> </td> <td class="thead" width="100%" align="$stylevar

">$vbphrase[forum]</td> <td class="thead">$vbphrase[last_post]</td> <td class="thead">$vbphrase[threads]</td> <td class="thead">$vbphrase[posts]</td> <if condition="$vboptions['showmoderatorcolumn']"> <td class="thead">$vbphrase[moderator]</td> </if> </tr> </thead> $forumbits <tbody> <tr> <td class="tfoot" align="center" colspan="<if condition="$vboptions['showmoderatorcolumn']">6<else />5</if>"><div class="smallfont"><strong> <a href="forumdisplay.php?$session[sessionurl]do=markread&markreadhash=$bbuserinfo[securitytoken]">$vbphrase[mark_forums_read]</a> <if condition="$vboptions['forumleaders']">    <a href="showgroups.php$session[sessionurl_q]">$vbphrase[view_forum_leaders]</a></if> </strong></div></td> </tr> </tbody> </table> $forumhome_markread_script  <br /> $ad_location[ad_forumhome_afterforums] <br />  <table class="tborder" cellpadding="$stylevar[cellpadding]" cellspacing="$stylevar[cellspacing]" border="0" width="100%" align="center"> <thead> <tr> <td class="tcat" colspan="2">$vbphrase[whats_going_on]</td> </tr> </thead> $template_hook[forumhome_wgo_pos1] <if condition="$show['loggedinusers']">  <tbody> <tr> <td class="thead" colspan="2"> <a style="float:$stylevar

" href="#top" onclick="return toggle_collapse('forumhome_activeusers')"><img id="collapseimg_forumhome_activeusers" src="$stylevar[imgdir_button]/collapse_thead$vbcollapse[collapseimg_forumhome_activeusers].gif" alt="" border="0" /></a> <a href="online.php$session[sessionurl_q]">$vbphrase[currently_active_users]</a>: $totalonline (<phrase 1="$numberregistered" 2="$numberguest">$vbphrase[x_members_and_y_guests]</phrase>) </td> </tr> </tbody> <tbody id="collapseobj_forumhome_activeusers" style="$vbcollapse[collapseobj_forumhome_activeusers]"> <tr> <td class="alt2"><a href="online.php$session[sessionurl_q]"><img src="$stylevar[imgdir_misc]/whos_online.gif" alt="$vbphrase[view_whos_online]" border="0" /></a></td> <td class="alt1" width="100%"> <div class="smallfont"> <div style="white-space: nowrap"><phrase 1="$recordusers" 2="$recorddate" 3="$recordtime">$vbphrase[most_users_ever_online_was_x_y_at_z]</phrase></div> <div>$activeusers</div> </div> </td> </tr> </tbody>  </if> $template_hook[forumhome_wgo_pos2] <tbody> <tr> <td class="thead" colspan="2"> <a style="float:$stylevar

" href="#top" onclick="return toggle_collapse('forumhome_stats')"><img id="collapseimg_forumhome_stats" src="$stylevar[imgdir_button]/collapse_thead$vbcollapse[collapseimg_forumhome_stats].gif" alt="" border="0" /></a> <phrase 1="$vboptions[bbtitle]">$vbphrase[x_statistics]</phrase> </td> </tr> </tbody> <tbody id="collapseobj_forumhome_stats" style="$vbcollapse[collapseobj_forumhome_stats]"> <tr> <td class="alt2"><img src="$stylevar[imgdir_misc]/stats.gif" alt="<phrase 1="$vboptions[bbtitle]">$vbphrase[x_statistics]</phrase>" border="0" /></td> <td class="alt1" width="100%"> <div class="smallfont"> <div> $vbphrase[threads]: $totalthreads, $vbphrase[posts]: $totalposts, $vbphrase[members]: $numbermembers<if condition="$show['activemembers']">, <span title="<phrase 1="$vboptions[activememberdays]">$vbphrase[within_the_last_x_days]</phrase>">$vbphrase[active_members]: $activemembers</span> </if> </div> <div><phrase 1="member.php?$session[sessionurl]u=$newuserid" 2="$newusername">$vbphrase[welcome_to_our_newest_member_x]</phrase></div> $template_hook[forumhome_wgo_stats] </div> </td> </tr> </tbody> $template_hook[forumhome_wgo_pos3] <if condition="$show['birthdays']">  <tbody> <tr> <td class="thead" colspan="2"> <a style="float:$stylevar

" href="#top" onclick="return toggle_collapse('forumhome_birthdays')"><img id="collapseimg_forumhome_birthdays" src="$stylevar[imgdir_button]/collapse_thead$vbcollapse[collapseimg_forumhome_birthdays].gif" alt="" border="0" /></a> $vbphrase[todays_birthdays] </td> </tr> </tbody> <tbody id="collapseobj_forumhome_birthdays" style="$vbcollapse[collapseobj_forumhome_birthdays]"> <tr> <td class="alt2"><a href="calendar.php?$session[sessionurl]do=getday&day=$today&sb=1"><img src="$stylevar[imgdir_misc]/birthday.gif" alt="$vbphrase[view_birthdays]" border="0" /></a></td> <td class="alt1" width="100%"><div class="smallfont">$birthdays</div></td> </tr> </tbody>  </if> $template_hook[forumhome_wgo_pos4] <if condition="$show['upcomingevents']"> <tbody> <tr> <td class="thead" colspan="2"> <a style="float:$stylevar

" href="#top" onclick="return toggle_collapse('forumhome_events')"><img id="collapseimg_forumhome_events" src="$stylevar[imgdir_button]/collapse_thead$vbcollapse[collapseimg_forumhome_events].gif" alt="" border="0" /></a> <if condition="$show['todaysevents']">$vbphrase[todays_events]<else /><phrase 1="$vboptions[showevents]">$vbphrase[upcoming_events_for_the_next_x_days]</phrase></if> </td> </tr> </tbody> <tbody id="collapseobj_forumhome_events" style="$vbcollapse[collapseobj_forumhome_events]"> <tr> <td class="alt2"><a href="calendar.php$session[sessionurl_q]"><img src="$stylevar[imgdir_misc]/calendar.gif" alt="$vbphrase[calendar]" border="0" /></a></td> <td class="alt1" width="100%"><div class="smallfont">$upcomingevents</div></td> </tr> </tbody> </if> $template_hook[forumhome_wgo_pos5] </table> <br />   <table align="center" class="tborder" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="5" border="0" width="750"> <tr valign="bottom"> <td class="alt2"> <table align="center" cellpadding="10" cellspacing="0"> <tr> <td><img src="$stylevar[imgdir_statusicon]/forum_new.gif" alt="$vbphrase[contains_new_posts]" border="0" /></td> <td class="smallfont">  $vbphrase[forum_contains_new_posts]</td> <td><img src="$stylevar[imgdir_statusicon]/forum_old.gif" alt="$vbphrase[contains_no_new_posts]" border="0" /></td> <td class="smallfont">  $vbphrase[forum_contains_no_new_posts]</td> <td><img src="$stylevar[imgdir_statusicon]/forum_old_lock.gif" alt="$vbphrase[a_closed_forum]" border="0" /></td> <td class="smallfont">  $vbphrase[forum_is_closed_for_posting]</td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <if condition="!$show['guest']"> <tr valign="bottom">  <td align="$stylevar

"><div align="right" class="smallfont"><a href="login.php?$session[sessionurl]do=logout&logouthash=$bbuserinfo[logouthash]" onclick="return log_out('$vbphrase[sure_you_want_to_log_out]')"><phrase 1="$bbuserinfo[username]"> $vbphrase[log_out_x] </phrase></a></div></td>  </tr></if> </table>  $footer </body> </html>]]>

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-<template name="navbar" version="3.8.5" username="napy8gen" date="1269681672" templatetype="template">

<![CDATA[<br />  <table class="tborder" cellpadding="$stylevar[cellpadding]" cellspacing="$stylevar[cellspacing]" border="0" width="100%" align="center"> <tr> <td class="alt1" width="100%"> <if condition="is_array($navbits)"> <table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0"> <tr valign="bottom"> <td><a href="#" onclick="history.back(1); return false;"><img src="$stylevar[imgdir_misc]/navbits_start.gif" alt="$vbphrase[go_back]" border="0" /></a></td> <td> </td> <td width="100%"><span class="navbar"><a href="$vboptions[forumhome].php$session[sessionurl_q]" accesskey="1">$vboptions[bbtitle]</a></span> $navbits[breadcrumb]</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="navbar" style="font-size:10pt; padding-top:1px" colspan="3"><if condition="$_SERVER['REQUEST_METHOD'] == 'POST'"><img class="inlineimg" src="$stylevar[imgdir_misc]/navbits_finallink_$stylevar[textdirection].gif" alt="" border="0" /><else /><a href="$navbar_reloadurl"><img class="inlineimg" src="$stylevar[imgdir_misc]/navbits_finallink_$stylevar[textdirection].gif" alt="$vbphrase[reload_this_page]" border="0" /></a></if> <strong>$navbits[lastelement]</strong></td> </tr> </table> <else /> <div class="navbar" style="font-size:10pt"><a href="$vboptions[forumhome].php$session[sessionurl_q]" accesskey="1"><img class="inlineimg" src="$stylevar[imgdir_misc]/navbits_start.gif" alt="" border="0" /></a> <strong>$vboptions[bbtitle]</strong></div> </if> </td> <if condition="$show['member']"> <td class="alt2" nowrap="nowrap"> <div class="smallfont"> <strong><phrase 1="$bbuserinfo[username]" 2="member.php?$session[sessionurl]u=$bbuserinfo[userid]">$vbphrase[welcome_x_link_y]</phrase></strong><br /> <phrase 1="$pmbox[lastvisitdate]" 2="$pmbox[lastvisittime]">$vbphrase[last_visited_x_at_y]</phrase> <if condition="$show['notifications']"> <div><span id="notifications"><a href="usercp.php$session[sessionurl_q]">$vbphrase[your_notifications]:</a> <strong>$notifications_total</strong></span></div> <if condition="$show['popups']"> <script type="text/javascript"> vBmenu.register("notifications"); </script> <else /> <script type="text/javascript" src="clientscript/vbulletin_notifications_nopopups.js?v=$vboptions[simpleversion]"></script> <script type="text/javascript"> vBulletin.register_control("vB_Notifications_NoPopups", "notifications"); </script> </if> <else /><if condition="$show['pmstats']"> <div><phrase 1="$vbphrase[unread_x_nav_compiled]" 2="$vbphrase[total_x_nav_compiled]" 3="$session[sessionurl_q]">$vbphrase[private_messages_nav]</phrase></div> </if></if> <if condition="$show['pmwarning']"><div><strong><phrase 1="$vbphrase[pmpercent_nav_compiled]">$vbphrase[your_pm_box_is_x_full]</phrase></strong></div></if> </div> </td> <else /> <td class="alt2" nowrap="nowrap" style="padding:0px">  <form action="login.php?do=login" method="post" onsubmit="md5hash(vb_login_password, vb_login_md5password, vb_login_md5password_utf, $show[nopasswordempty])"> <script type="text/javascript" src="clientscript/vbulletin_md5.js?v=$vboptions[simpleversion]"></script> <table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="$stylevar[formspacer]" border="0"> <tr> <td class="smallfont" style="white-space: nowrap;"><label for="navbar_username">$vbphrase[username]</label></td> <td><input type="text" class="bginput" style="font-size: 11px" name="vb_login_username" id="navbar_username" size="10" accesskey="u" tabindex="101" value="$vbphrase[username]" onfocus="if (this.value == '$vbphrase[username]') this.value = '';" /></td> <td class="smallfont" nowrap="nowrap"><label for="cb_cookieuser_navbar"><input type="checkbox" name="cookieuser" value="1" tabindex="103" id="cb_cookieuser_navbar" accesskey="c" />$vbphrase[remember_me]</label></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="smallfont"><label for="navbar_password">$vbphrase[password]</label></td> <td><input type="password" class="bginput" style="font-size: 11px" name="vb_login_password" id="navbar_password" size="10" tabindex="102" /></td> <td><input type="submit" class="button" value="$vbphrase[log_in]" tabindex="104" title="$vbphrase[enter_username_to_login_or_register]" accesskey="s" /></td> </tr> </table> <input type="hidden" name="s" value="$session[sessionhash]" /> <input type="hidden" name="securitytoken" value="$bbuserinfo[securitytoken]" /> <input type="hidden" name="do" value="login" /> <input type="hidden" name="vb_login_md5password" /> <input type="hidden" name="vb_login_md5password_utf" /> </form>  </td> </if> </tr> </table>    <br /> <if condition="$show['notices']"> <form action="profile.php?do=dismissnotice" method="post" id="notices"> <input type="hidden" name="do" value="dismissnotice" /> <input type="hidden" name="securitytoken" value="$bbuserinfo[securitytoken]" /> <input type="hidden" id="dismiss_notice_hidden" name="dismiss_noticeid" value="" /> <input type="hidden" name="url" value="$return_link" /> <table class="tborder" cellpadding="$stylevar[cellpadding]" cellspacing="$stylevar[cellspacing]" border="0" width="100%" align="center"> <tr> <td class="thead">$vbphrase[notices]</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="alt1"> $notices </td> </tr> </table> <br /> </form> </if> <if condition="$show['forumdesc']"> <table class="tborder" cellpadding="$stylevar[cellpadding]" cellspacing="$stylevar[cellspacing]" border="0" width="100%" align="center"> <tr> <td class="alt1" width="100%"><strong>$foruminfo[title]</strong> <span class="smallfont">$foruminfo[description]</span></td> </tr> </table> <br /> </if> <if condition="$show['popups']">  <if condition="$show['communitylink']">  <div class="vbmenu_popup" id="community_menu" style="display:none;margin-top:3px" align="$stylevar

"> <table cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1" border="0"> <tr><td class="thead">$vbphrase[community_links]</td></tr> $template_hook[navbar_community_menu_start] <if condition="$show['quick_links_groups']"> <tr><td class="vbmenu_option"><a href="group.php$session[sessionurl_q]">$vbphrase[social_groups]</a></td></tr> </if> <if condition="$show['quick_links_albums']"> <tr><td class="vbmenu_option"><a href="album.php$session[sessionurl_q]">$vbphrase[pictures_and_albums]</a></td></tr> </if> <if condition="$bbuserinfo['userid']"> <tr><td class="vbmenu_option"><a href="profile.php?$session[sessionurl]do=buddylist"><if condition="$show['friends_and_contacts']">$vbphrase[contacts_and_friends]<else />$vbphrase[contacts]</if></a></td></tr> </if> <if condition="$show['memberslist']"> <tr><td class="vbmenu_option"><a href="memberlist.php$session[sessionurl_q]">$vbphrase[members_list]</a></td></tr> </if> $template_hook[navbar_community_menu_end] </table> </div>  </if> <if condition="$show['searchbuttons']">  <div class="vbmenu_popup" id="navbar_search_menu" style="display:none;margin-top:3px" align="$stylevar

"> <table cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1" border="0"> <tr> <td class="thead">$vbphrase[search_forums]</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="vbmenu_option" title="nohilite"> <form action="search.php?do=process" method="post"> <input type="hidden" name="do" value="process" /> <input type="hidden" name="quicksearch" value="1" /> <input type="hidden" name="childforums" value="1" /> <input type="hidden" name="exactname" value="1" /> <input type="hidden" name="s" value="$session[sessionhash]" /> <input type="hidden" name="securitytoken" value="$bbuserinfo[securitytoken]" /> <div><input type="text" class="bginput" name="query" size="25" tabindex="1001" /><input type="submit" class="button" value="$vbphrase[go]" tabindex="1004" /></div> <div style="margin-top:$stylevar[cellpadding]px"> <label for="rb_nb_sp0"><input type="radio" name="showposts" value="0" id="rb_nb_sp0" tabindex="1002" checked="checked" />$vbphrase[show_threads]</label>   <label for="rb_nb_sp1"><input type="radio" name="showposts" value="1" id="rb_nb_sp1" tabindex="1003" />$vbphrase[show_posts]</label> </div> </form> </td> </tr> <if condition="$vboptions[threadtagging]"> <tr> <td class="vbmenu_option"><a href="tags.php$session[sessionurl_q]" rel="nofollow">$vbphrase[tag_search]</a></td> </tr> </if> <tr> <td class="vbmenu_option"><a href="search.php$session[sessionurl_q]" accesskey="4" rel="nofollow">$vbphrase[advanced_search]</a></td> </tr> $template_hook[navbar_search_menu] </table> </div>  </if> <if condition="$show['member']">  <div class="vbmenu_popup" id="usercptools_menu" style="display:none;margin-top:3px" align="$stylevar

"> <table cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1" border="0"> <tr><td class="thead">$vbphrase[quick_links]</td></tr> <if condition="$vboptions['enablesearches']"><tr><td class="vbmenu_option"><a href="search.php?$session[sessionurl]do=getdaily">$vbphrase[todays_posts]</a></td></tr></if> <tr><td class="vbmenu_option"><a href="forumdisplay.php?$session[sessionurl]do=markread&markreadhash=$bbuserinfo[securitytoken]">$vbphrase[mark_forums_read]</a></td></tr> <tr><td class="vbmenu_option"><a href="#" onclick="window.open('misc.php?$session[sessionurl]do=buddylist&focus=1','buddylist','statusbar=no,menubar=no,toolbar=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,width=250,height=300'); return false;">$vbphrase[open_contacts]</a></td></tr> $template_hook[navbar_quick_links_menu_pos1] $template_hook[navbar_quick_links_menu_pos2] <tr><td class="thead"><a href="usercp.php$session[sessionurl_q]">$vbphrase[user_control_panel]</a></td></tr> <if condition="$show['siglink']"><tr><td class="vbmenu_option"><a href="profile.php?$session[sessionurl]do=editsignature">$vbphrase[edit_signature]</a></td></tr></if>  <tr><td class="vbmenu_option"><a href="profile.php?$session[sessionurl]do=editprofile">$vbphrase[edit_your_details]</a></td></tr> <tr><td class="vbmenu_option"><a href="profile.php?$session[sessionurl]do=editoptions">$vbphrase[edit_options]</a></td></tr> $template_hook[navbar_quick_links_menu_pos3] <tr><td class="thead">$vbphrase[miscellaneous]</td></tr> <if condition="$show['pmmainlink']"><tr><td class="vbmenu_option"><a href="private.php$session[sessionurl_q]" rel="nofollow">$vbphrase[private_messages]</a></td></tr></if> <tr><td class="vbmenu_option"><a href="subscription.php$session[sessionurl_q]" rel="nofollow">$vbphrase[subscribed_threads]</a></td></tr> <tr><td class="vbmenu_option"><a href="member.php?$session[sessionurl]u=$bbuserinfo[userid]">$vbphrase[your_profile]</a></td></tr> <if condition="$show['wollink']"><tr><td class="vbmenu_option"><a href="online.php$session[sessionurl_q]">$vbphrase[whos_online]</a></td></tr></if> $template_hook[navbar_quick_links_menu_pos4] </table> </div>  </if>   <div class="vbmenu_popup" id="pagenav_menu" style="display:none"> <table cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1" border="0"> <tr> <td class="thead" nowrap="nowrap">$vbphrase[go_to_page]</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="vbmenu_option" title="nohilite"> <form action="$vboptions[forumhome].php" method="get" onsubmit="return this.gotopage()" id="pagenav_form"> <input type="text" class="bginput" id="pagenav_itxt" style="font-size:11px" size="4" /> <input type="button" class="button" id="pagenav_ibtn" value="$vbphrase[go]" /> </form> </td> </tr> </table> </div>  </if> <if condition="$show['member'] AND $notifications_total">  <div class="vbmenu_popup" id="notifications_menu" style="display:none"> <table cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1" border="0"> <tr><td class="thead" colspan="2">$vbphrase[your_notifications]</td></tr> $notifications_menubits </table> </div>  </if> $ad_location[ad_navbar_below]]]>

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<![CDATA[$ad_location[ad_footer_start] <br /> <div class="smallfont" align="center">$vbphrase[all_times_are_gmt_x_time_now_is_y]</div> <br /> $spacer_close  <form action="$vboptions[forumhome].php" method="get" style="clear:$stylevar

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" width="100%"> <div class="smallfont"> <strong> <if condition="$show['contactus']"><a href="$vboptions[contactuslink]" rel="nofollow" accesskey="9">$vbphrase[contact_us]</a> -</if> <if condition="$vboptions['hometitle']"><a href="$vboptions[homeurl]">$vboptions[hometitle]</a> -</if> <if condition="$show['admincplink']"><a href="$admincpdir/index.php$session[sessionurl_q]">$vbphrase[admin]</a> -</if> <if condition="$show['modcplink']"><a href="$modcpdir/index.php$session[sessionurl_q]">$vbphrase[mod]</a> -</if> <if condition="$vboptions['archiveenabled']"><a href="archive/index.php">$vbphrase[archive]</a> -</if> $template_hook[footer_links] <if condition="$vboptions[privacyurl]"><a href="$vboptions[privacyurl]">$vbphrase[privacy_statement]</a> -</if> <if condition="$vboptions[tosurl]"><a href="$vboptions[tosurl]">$vbphrase[terms_of_service]</a> -</if> <a href="#top" onclick="self.scrollTo(0, 0); return false;">$vbphrase[top]</a> </strong> </div> </td> </tr> </table> <br /> <div align="center"> <div class="smallfont" align="center">  $vbphrase[powered_by_vbulletin]  </div> <div class="smallfont" align="center">  $cronimage  $vboptions[copyrighttext] </div><div class="smallfont" align="center"> <a href="https://www.sultantheme.com/">SultanTheme.com vBulletin Skins</a></div> </div> </form> $ad_location[ad_footer_end] <if condition="$show['dst_correction']">  <form action="profile.php?do=dst" method="post" name="dstform"> <input type="hidden" name="s" value="$session[sessionhash]" /> <input type="hidden" name="securitytoken" value="$bbuserinfo[securitytoken]" /> <input type="hidden" name="do" value="dst" /> </form> <script type="text/javascript">  </script>  </if> </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="footwrap"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td class="footL"> </td> <td> </td> <td class="footR"> </td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> </table> <script type="text/javascript">  </script>]]>

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<![CDATA[ <a name="top"></a> <table width="900" border="0" align="center" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tr> <td class="headerwrap"><table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td class="headerL"><a href="$vboptions[forumhome].php$session[sessionurl_q]"><img src="images/basketball/spacer.gif" alt="$vboptions[bbtitle]" width="353" height="145" border="0"/></a></td> <td> </td> <td class="headerR"> </td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="navwrap"> <div id="navstyle" style="padding:$stylevar[cellspacing]px; border-top-width:0px"> <table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" width="100%" align="center"> <tr align="center"> <if condition="$show['member']"> <td><a href="usercp.php$session[sessionurl_q]">$vbphrase[user_cp]</a></td> </if> <if condition="$show['registerbutton']"> <td><a href="register.php$session[sessionurl_q]" rel="nofollow">$vbphrase[register]</a></td> </if> $template_hook[navbar_buttons_left] <td><a rel="help" href="faq.php$session[sessionurl_q]" accesskey="5">$vbphrase[faq]</a></td> <if condition="$show['communitylink'] AND $show['popups']"> <td><a id="community" href="$show[nojs_link]#community" rel="nofollow" accesskey="6">$vbphrase[community]</a> <script type="text/javascript"> vbmenu_register("community"); </script></td> <else /> <if condition="$show['memberslist']"> <td><a href="memberlist.php$session[sessionurl_q]">$vbphrase[members_list]</a></td> </if> <if condition="$show['quick_links_groups']"> <td><a href="group.php?$session[sessionurl]">$vbphrase[social_groups]</a></td> </if> </if> <td><a href="calendar.php$session[sessionurl_q]">$vbphrase[calendar]</a></td> <if condition="$show['popups']"> <if condition="$show['searchbuttons']"> <if condition="$show['member']"> <td><a href="search.php?$session[sessionurl]do=getnew" accesskey="2">$vbphrase[new_posts_nav]</a></td> <else /> <td><a href="search.php?$session[sessionurl]do=getdaily" accesskey="2">$vbphrase[todays_posts]</a></td> </if> <td><a id="navbar_search" href="search.php$session[sessionurl_q]" accesskey="4" rel="nofollow">$vbphrase[search]</a> <if condition="$show['quicksearch']"><script type="text/javascript"> vbmenu_register("navbar_search"); </script></if></td> </if> <if condition="$show['member']"> <td><a id="usercptools" href="$show[nojs_link]#usercptools" accesskey="3">$vbphrase[quick_links]</a> <script type="text/javascript"> vbmenu_register("usercptools"); </script></td> </if> <else /> <if condition="$show['searchbuttons']"> <td><a href="search.php$session[sessionurl_q]" accesskey="4">$vbphrase[search]</a></td> <if condition="$show['member']"> <td><a href="search.php?$session[sessionurl]do=getnew" accesskey="2">$vbphrase[new_posts_nav]</a></td> <else /> <td><a href="search.php?$session[sessionurl]do=getdaily" accesskey="2">$vbphrase[todays_posts]</a></td> </if> </if> <td><a href="forumdisplay.php?$session[sessionurl]do=markread&markreadhash=$bbuserinfo[securitytoken]">$vbphrase[mark_forums_read]</a></td> <if condition="$show['member']"> <td><a href="#" onclick="window.open('misc.php?$session[sessionurl]do=buddylist&focus=1','buddylist','statusbar=no,menubar=no,toolbar=no,scrollbars=yes,resizable=yes,width=250,height=300'); return false;">$vbphrase[open_contacts]</a></td> </if> </if> $template_hook[navbar_buttons_right] <if condition="$show['member']"> <td><a href="login.php?$session[sessionurl]do=logout&logouthash=$bbuserinfo[logouthash]" onclick="return log_out('$vbphrase[sure_you_want_to_log_out]')">$vbphrase[log_out]</a></td> </if> </tr> </table> </div> </td> </tr> <tr> <td valign="top" class="cwrap">   $spacer_open $_phpinclude_output $ad_location[ad_header_end]]]>

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</style>

TL;DR:
Personally, I'd feel sorry for anyone who had to go through every line to inspect the XML. That seems pretty tedious and honestly not worth it. And if they're not an experienced vBulletin skinner, it might be downright impossible. So while giving them a skin might seem like a good idea, I'm not sure if it'd work out well in the end, especially if it involves a lot of CSS. I can understand not wanting to just install a skin from anyone and I can also understand not wanting to give a person ACP access, even if it's only to the style options. So that part of Eliz's reasoning actually makes a whole lot of sense.

For the record, I agree with [MENTION=58]Goddess[/MENTION], [MENTION=8]Gandalf[/MENTION], and [MENTION=490]Kaeliah[/MENTION], because I argued the same thing way back in November. You all are completely right, and Kaeliah is especially right about nothing changing for the moment (because a skin isn't seen a priority to them right now). And yes, I agree, I think that a skin is being underestimated by most people. But I don't think most people recognize its importance until they have extensive experience working with forums and communities and games and seeing how even the most trivial matter can affect them. Skins are important. I won't dare call them top priority, but I suppose even the last thing on a to-do list eventually becomes a priority when it hasn't been done in months. :shrug:

Honestly, this whole skin thing has been debated for months. I think it's time to give it up. A skin would be nice, but I don't see it happening unless, like already suggested, someone went through an intense interview process. And then think about it - who wants to go through all of that just to make a skin for someone for free? What's the incentive? There's a reason most forums hire experienced skin designers if the owners or other staff don't know how to do it - to avoid this whole debate. It's a lot easier for staff members to handle back-end things, and IMO, that's how it should be anyway. I don't see a skin coming unless it's from a staff member who learns to skin vBulletin. (Honestly, it's not too difficult. I'm sure one of us could teach someone or they could even teach themselves. That is, if they want to learn. When you think about it, this might actually be the best option - instead of members creating skins, we could help teach whoever is interested in skinning how to do it.) It's not a perfect suggestion, but it is a compromise, and I suppose we would eventually end up with a custom skin. :bounce:

Continuity Through Main Page and Forum

Eliz

Active Member

Fiyero

Well-Known Member

Goddess

Where did 4 years go?!

Eliz

Active Member

Goddess

Where did 4 years go?!

Kaeliah

Previously Tessa

Eliz

Active Member

Goddess

Where did 4 years go?!

Whispered

Well-Known Member

Goddess

Where did 4 years go?!

Fiyero

Well-Known Member

CurleeQ

Well-Known Member

Oreo

LIKE NOBODY'S BIDNEHHZ

Whispered

Well-Known Member

Jasmine

Well-Known Member