Stage diving

[Andrew]

I am a member of a pretty large Pop Punk group on Facebook and enjoy reading the posts on there. Sometimes there are interesting debates in the comments of posts there, which I like to read.

One recent debate was about stage diving. Recently, a fan died after stage diving at a "Miss May I" (a metal band, for those who were curious) concert (http://www.metalinjection.net/latest-news/bummer-alert/fan-dies-stage-diving-at-miss-may-i-show). The debate that ensued on the Pop Punk page is this:

Is it the responsibility of the crowd (those in the front/mosh pit) to catch the person stage diving, or is it the responsibility of the person stage diving to realize the danger of stage diving and that something potentially dangerous/deadly could happen (meaning if the crowd does nothing to catch the diver/moves away/leaves an open area for the diver to fall, it's the divers fault for stage diving in the first place).

What are your thoughts?

 

[StephaniePea]

http://gawker.com/iggy-azalea-has-to-put-barriers-up-because-fans-sexuall-1566410584
interesting post, I watched the linked vid and thought it was interesting. i think its definitely the stage diver's responsibility to realize whether or not someone will catch them lol.

 

[NanoStorm]

I would have to say that everyone is responsible for their own actions, thus it is the person diving to judge the risk. Though I would say the crowd should have some responsibility to at least make sure the person does not die. In general I think stage diving is pretty comparable with jumping off a cliff. While you may live, and you may find some thrill from it, generally it isn't a good idea. (Risk vs Reward). In concerts with loud music it can enhance certain emotions in people and create a hyper realistic atmosphere leading to risky judgement.

If you are absolutely wanting to stage dive my advice is: before you go to a concert if you want to stage dive its a good idea to consider the dangers and make that decision before the concert. While at the concert it would be a good idea to reevaluate by "testing the crowd". Do a smaller stage dive and see how the crowd reacts. Until you acknowledge all the factors and know that the outcome is fully your responsibility I would not take that risk.

 

[kalyee]

Stage diving is clearly a risky activity. If you're not going to check and be 100% sure that the crowd is paying attention and is game to catch and assist you, you shouldn't be stage diving. If you're not willing to lose your life/gain serious injuries by stage diving, you shouldn't be stage diving. If you think people are going to catch you just because you're throwing yourself off the stage into a crowd like a party favor, you shouldn't be stage diving.
Definitely the responsibility of the diver to take all factors into account.

 

[philitup]

I don't think diving off of a stage is very bright of someone. You can't just blame the crowd for not catching you because what if they didn't see you until the last second? And even if they do catch you what's so great about it? Do you feel better than everyone else because you jumped off the stage and didn't die? Nothing good can come from it, in my opinion.

 

[Valkyrie]

Stage diving is exactly like jumping off a cliff, except you're not putting the people in danger below you in danger when jumping off a cliff. It is very risky, and can cause many injuries, to both the performer(s) and the people in the audience. The performer(s) are pretty much depending on the audience to catch them, and if they don't they could break their back crashing to the ground. And according to StephaniePea's link, the performer is also risking sexual things done to them. It's not a bright idea, and it's the performer(s) responsibility to have common sense to risk themselves and the audience tbh.

 

[Killjoy]

I think that it's not a very smart thing to do, I mean trusting people that you don't know you catch you when you jump on top of them? I don't mosh, I don't participate in the pit, I don't crowd surf, and I go to those types concerts a lot, and I see people falling and getting punched in the head, and hospital staff is on standby always, it's crazy. Don't get me wrong though, it does look fun,(stage diving/crowd surfing) but I would only do it with a crowd of people I know, not a bunch of strangers. I just think that's it's very dangerous and not a very bright idea.

 

[†_Beast_†]

1. It clearly depends on the stage. In other words, I don't think it would be a bright idea for anyone to jump off a stage that has an extremely high elevation.
2. I hate to say this but it depends on the person also. For example (and I have seen this happen before...) a 450 pound chick gets up on stage and tries to stage dive. You can bet that the crowd is thinking "uhhh move, im not catching her with my hands up". Even if you attempt to catch her or help, more often than not everyone else gets the [heck] out of the way and you could end up with an injury from all that weight falling at once. It's much more likely for the crowd to get injured than the person stage diving. Fact is, some people in the crowd don't pay attention or are looking somewhere else if in a mosh pit.
3. I've worked security at a few shows myself and helped people who stage dive/crowd surf to the front etc.
4. Due to this, I'd say its much more dangerous to the crowd of people than to the person stage diving. Most people only do it if the stage is low enough. Injuries usually only incur if someone isn't paying attention usually OR when someone clearly weighs too much and tries to dive into the wrong group of people... lol to be frank


EDIT: Please keep language G-appropriate.

 

[Hipster]

Eh, if its someone I reeeally love, i'll be willing to get hurt for them...

Realistically: people need to be aware and ready if someone stage dives.

 

[†_Beast_†]

^ That's the truth b/c people really do need to be aware and ready for sure.


Even though I believe everyone at a show is there to have a good time; the ONLY thing I dislike about shows is when people try to grab someone crowd surfing in inappropriate spots or steal from them and/or stuff falling out of their pockets. There is always the open possibility of one bad apple or more trying to do that to people. Definitely a problem at much larger shows with huge crowds of people I think. Aside from that, I'd say enter any pit at your own risk. While there are lots of people that will help you up if you get knocked down or even get knocked out depending on what happens etc., just remember that if your new to it, not everyone is considerate to stop moshing for a second to help someone up. Whenever I go to a show or my buds go, we always try to help people that get knocked down in pits. It sets a good example that says hey we're here to party it up to some good tunes but also to be responsible for everyone. People lose sight that everyone else is just there to have a good time too I think. Being considerate goes a long way, so if you’re in a pit and see someone get knocked down, help them up!

Also, if you see someone get mauled, step in. Security at shows don't always see what happens! Even if you get kicked out of a show for "being involved", (yes that has happened to me once for helping someone lol...heh long story...) more often than not security will thank you/the person you helped will thank you for helping out. Human beings make errors/don't argue with security even if it happens. Regardless, you know that you've done the right thing inside. That's whats important. Don't get angry and retaliate (seen people do that). Having the cops come and paying fines/jail time isn't worth it. I myself have been threatened to have the cops come at shows to get me so I know... Just calmly explain to security what happened and why you were involved. Doing the right thing will always outweigh any perception someone has. I've been on both sides of that fence so I understand that security can't see everything. They make judgement calls. I personally have never kicked anyone out of a show when working security at a show cept this one dude that was extremely drunk and started a fist fight with another person. I'm probably making it sound a lot worse than it is. Usually shows don't really have any problems, its just people making a dumb choice, deciding to do something they shouldn't. I think if your aware of these things, try be safe and helpful when possible, then you'll be alright. =) Heck, sometimes security is the bad individual even..., I remember Tom Araya from Slayer stopped playing halfway through a set and called out a security guard that was beating someone up. He said stop beating the fans up, its your job to protect them, not beat them up! He was right. Injustice can happen on either side. Just remember to be helpful when possible. Maybe getting thrown out sinks for helping and someone is too ignorant to listen "whose in charge", but think about all those times you were thanked/helped to make sure others had a good time too by being considerate while still enjoying the show etc. Say it only happens 1 out of 20-30 times, its still worth it. Don't let someone else's ignorance ruin your time at doing the right thing.