Minimum Wage
- Thread starter Monorail
- Start date
So you've essentially ignored everyone's arguments here and we've circled back to the idea that someone working a minimum wage job is lazy and lacks motivation. Which is in all honestly, the most ignorant statement I've ever seen. I'm pretty sure with a lot of minimum wage jobs (especially ones involving manual labor) it takes more motivation to do those jobs. I don't see how that makes someone lazy.
I don't see how wanting to earn a livable amount of money without needing social assistance (food stamps, welfare) as looking at it through rose colored glasses (or how Allison so respectfully put it: As it was stated over and over on this debate, not everyone is able either financially, or otherwise to pursue an education that will give them the skills to earn what you evidently consider to be a better standard of living. Some people are only able to perform minimal level jobs, and those people too have to earn a living to support themselves. There are plenty of people that, under the pretense that getting a degree means they'll get a good job and earn good money, went to college for years and earned degrees in their field of choice but end up working 2 or 3 minimum wage jobs to pay for their loans from college, because they can't find a job in their field. This has been an ongoing issue for some time.
You can't back up your statement with just knowing some people that are able to pick up software design without a college degree, considering that isn't a skill a vast amount of people are able to pick up easily. If you can give an example of a skill required for a job that will earn you good income, that isn't difficult for most people without further education to obtain, then I will be able to understand your point better.
Furthermore, I'm sorry but I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you, on the grounds that your supporting source isn't exactly the most valid (in my opinion).
I don't see how wanting to earn a livable amount of money without needing social assistance (food stamps, welfare) as looking at it through rose colored glasses (or how Allison so respectfully put it: As it was stated over and over on this debate, not everyone is able either financially, or otherwise to pursue an education that will give them the skills to earn what you evidently consider to be a better standard of living. Some people are only able to perform minimal level jobs, and those people too have to earn a living to support themselves. There are plenty of people that, under the pretense that getting a degree means they'll get a good job and earn good money, went to college for years and earned degrees in their field of choice but end up working 2 or 3 minimum wage jobs to pay for their loans from college, because they can't find a job in their field. This has been an ongoing issue for some time.
You can't back up your statement with just knowing some people that are able to pick up software design without a college degree, considering that isn't a skill a vast amount of people are able to pick up easily. If you can give an example of a skill required for a job that will earn you good income, that isn't difficult for most people without further education to obtain, then I will be able to understand your point better.
Furthermore, I'm sorry but I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you, on the grounds that your supporting source isn't exactly the most valid (in my opinion).
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You do realize unemployment is something you pay in to from a job right? You can't get on unemployment without first having worked. Unemployment isn't giving out money you don't have, it's giving back money you put out while working, and it's not a hand out.
Our country can't afford a lot of things, but we still spend like we have unlimited cash-flow. So what does that have to do with raising minimum wage to a decent amount so people don't have to pay for welfare/food stamps for those that can't afford to live?
Our country can't afford a lot of things, but we still spend like we have unlimited cash-flow. So what does that have to do with raising minimum wage to a decent amount so people don't have to pay for welfare/food stamps for those that can't afford to live?
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You guys argue about the morality and rights of it all. Reality is reality. Increasing the price of labor will only decrease the quantity demanded, and making competing for that same position more difficult.
There are hypothetical labor supply and demand curves for which there is initially a very small labor surplus, but the price floor also increases total worker income. As a result, aggregate demand increases, and the labor demand curve shifts to meet the price floor and end the surplus.
The stock market means exactly jack nothing. You can go visit your local Enron investor to find out more about this.
Guess how else jobs get lost? People quit. The make little money, so they leave. That worker has to be replaced. A new one has to be trained. That costs the company money.
And "simple economics" is literally the worst thing you can ever use in an economic argument. The real-world economy is not simple. It is incredibly complex. Slightly-less-simple economics states that a raise in wages increases aggregate demand, thus increasing revenue for all companies, thus giving them the financial power to afford a wage increase.
Irrelevant. Things could be worse, but they could be better. That's like saying, "Don't take allergy medicine to relieve that cough. You're lucky enough to not have pneumonia right now."
See above. And maybe you missed the study I linked last night, so here it is again: http://www.epi.org/publication/ib341-raising-federal-minimum-wage/
No one has pointed that out because it's patently untrue.
We have a $16.2 trillion GDP and only 318 million people. That's more than enough wealth to go around. And, as I've said multiple times, the minimum wage increase would fuel economic growth, thus increasing that GDP. Even more money to go around.
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There are a lot of federal level government jobs, and those people's salaries come from the nation's budget. If the minimum wage were to increase, we would be spending even more money that we don't have. It's just going to hurt us in the long run.
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Um, I'm pretty sure people would not quit their jobs because they are not being paid enough. In this day and age, people will be thankful that they even have a job.
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Um, I'm pretty sure people would not quit their jobs because they are not being paid enough. In this day and age, people will be thankful that they even have a job.
How can you be sure about something you obviously haven't had to deal with before? People quit all the time because they aren't being paid enough at their job and were already denied wage raises. Some people can't afford to work their fingers to the bone and still not be able to afford to live, so they go on unemployment until they can somehow find a better paying job (that is more than likely, still at minimum wage).
Whether you want to realize it or not, minimum wage jobs are essentially the backbone of this countries economy and foundation. There are more blue collar, middle class, minimum wage workers than there are highfalutin salary paid workers.
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What jobs are you referring to exactly? If you wouldn't mind explaining your statement further.
Whether you want to realize it or not, minimum wage jobs are essentially the backbone of this countries economy and foundation. There are more blue collar, middle class, minimum wage workers than there are highfalutin salary paid workers.
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What jobs are you referring to exactly? If you wouldn't mind explaining your statement further.
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Yes there are, but can you give a specific example to back your argument, and how it correlates to your statement?
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And again you're missing the point. It has nothing to do with the work being too hard, but has everything to do with working that hard for a pittance and not being able to support yourself.
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And again you're missing the point. It has nothing to do with the work being too hard, but has everything to do with working that hard for a pittance and not being able to support yourself.
A few points:
1. Minimum wage has not risen with inflation. This is part of the reason why it has become increasingly difficult to live on a minimum wage salary.
2. It is possible for companies to offer affordable prices, be profitable, and offer a decent salary and full benefits to their workers. Just look at Costco.
3. A lower minimum wage further burdens the government and economy since people have to go on public assistance programs to pay rent, buy food, get healthcare, etc. since they cannot afford these necessities otherwise.
4. People can't just up and decide that they want to go to college and get a better job. This is based on several simplistic assumptions. The cost of an education is extremely high. Scholarships are few and far between, and many don't even come close to paying for an education. Also, to expect someone (say, for instance, a single mother) to work a minimum wage job to pay for school and support a family is impossible. Not to mention, a college degree isn't exactly a ticket to a wellpaying job anymore, either. Plenty of grads are unemployed.
1. Minimum wage has not risen with inflation. This is part of the reason why it has become increasingly difficult to live on a minimum wage salary.
2. It is possible for companies to offer affordable prices, be profitable, and offer a decent salary and full benefits to their workers. Just look at Costco.
3. A lower minimum wage further burdens the government and economy since people have to go on public assistance programs to pay rent, buy food, get healthcare, etc. since they cannot afford these necessities otherwise.
4. People can't just up and decide that they want to go to college and get a better job. This is based on several simplistic assumptions. The cost of an education is extremely high. Scholarships are few and far between, and many don't even come close to paying for an education. Also, to expect someone (say, for instance, a single mother) to work a minimum wage job to pay for school and support a family is impossible. Not to mention, a college degree isn't exactly a ticket to a wellpaying job anymore, either. Plenty of grads are unemployed.
Well as quoted by [MENTION=1312]Thrill[/MENTION] on this thread before, the GDP for the Country tells us we can afford to raise minimum wage, and many studies have shown it would actually help the economy improve.
No one is asking for it to be raised to $50.00 /hour, but to a more decent livable amount. Even $10.00 in my opinion is fair enough. My fiance can support himself quite comfortably on $10.00 /hour and still be able to save money without living paycheck to paycheck or needing social assistance.
No one is asking for it to be raised to $50.00 /hour, but to a more decent livable amount. Even $10.00 in my opinion is fair enough. My fiance can support himself quite comfortably on $10.00 /hour and still be able to save money without living paycheck to paycheck or needing social assistance.
Wait, are you saying that the headline I saw but a minute ago is true? (Hint: you are. Here's a source.)
http://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoc...t-taxpayers-6-2-billion-in-public-assistance/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoc...t-taxpayers-6-2-billion-in-public-assistance/
Would it?
For example: I had to take out a $10,000 dollar loan to pay for schooling that I ended up hating and wasn't even interested in doing, and ultimately did not end up using.
It's going to take me 2 years (or more) to pay back that loan because I can't even afford to, because wages are so low.
How exactly would it be worth it in the long run? (Other than raising your credit score by making the payments on time and never defaulting, and also teaching you financial responsibility.)
For example: I had to take out a $10,000 dollar loan to pay for schooling that I ended up hating and wasn't even interested in doing, and ultimately did not end up using.
It's going to take me 2 years (or more) to pay back that loan because I can't even afford to, because wages are so low.
How exactly would it be worth it in the long run? (Other than raising your credit score by making the payments on time and never defaulting, and also teaching you financial responsibility.)
Well your situation is different. You paid for schooling that you ended up not liking. That is no one's fault but your own, that you did not end up enjoying your field and wasted your money. Did you do enough research about the career field?
Let's take, for example, a person who was completely satisfied with their schooling and wanted to pursue a career in that field. Sure, it will take a few years to pay back all the loans, but once you are finished, you are earning more than you would if you were working in, say, a fast food restaurant. So that's why I think going to college and taking out a loan is worth it in the long run.
Let's take, for example, a person who was completely satisfied with their schooling and wanted to pursue a career in that field. Sure, it will take a few years to pay back all the loans, but once you are finished, you are earning more than you would if you were working in, say, a fast food restaurant. So that's why I think going to college and taking out a loan is worth it in the long run.
No, that's not what I mean. I'm personally finding interesting and valid points on both sides.
What I'm saying is, on both sides of the argument, people are tending to be more aggressive and closed-minded towards the opposite view than people usually are in these debates. It's just an observation.
(not directed at anyone in particular) This debate is an interesting read, as long as it stays civil. I can't take any argument seriously when people are calling others stupid for having a differing opinion. I'll stay on the sidelines, though.