Polls, and how they need to be improved

[The_Jedi_Master]

I mentioned this on Skype to Amy, but figured I'd make a thread about it.

The polls here are based on First Past the Post, which has plenty of problems, expecially with the kind of questions being asked here, which have many options. For a great video explaining the details of the problems, check this out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo

You see this shown well in the current Black Mickey Ears Mk. II thread. As of the writing of this post, 3 days is winning. Except it shouldn't be. Only 25% of those voting want it. Now, if we count Special Occasions and Once a Week as more than 3 days, then we have nearly 65% of all voters thinking it should be longer than 3 days. Only 35% want either 3 or 1 days. That's significantly more than half of votes who are against what the poll shows to be winning. There are a few ways this could be fixed. More incremental polls is one. But that requires a lot more time, and really doesn't help the issue much. You could aim for 2 option polls, and then have the admins use their own discretion on things like time frame. IE Should ears be up forever or a certain amount of time. You might poll with First past the post, and use your best judgement to pick a winner. Or, you could go a bit more complex, but fairly effective for our purposes here, and use the alternative vote.

I'd recommend this video to explain the alternative vote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y3jE3B8HsE

Essentially, you get to vote for every option in the order you would want them. When the votes are tallied, the option with the fewest first choices is eliminated. Then, all people who voted for that option will get their first alternative used for the tallying process instead. Then, the option with the fewest votes gets eliminated, and the people who votes for it get their next alternative pick, and so on, until only one option remains.

So for example, I vote for Special Occasions. If at some point in the process, special occasions was out, I'd choose to have my vote go to "Forever", then 6 months, Then 3 Months, Then a Month. This ensures no matter what the results are, my vote doesn't get wasted by picking the option I really like, rather than whatever is currently closest to winning that I mostly want.

Thanks,
~Jedi

 

[Scuba]

Completely agree with you Jedi. I'm also seeing this in the buyable rooms poll, where I feel like voting on all of them in order of preference would be much better.

BTW, love CGPGrey videos.

 

[Kevin]

Thanks for the suggestions! I am sure we will work out any kinks on polls rather soon!

 

[Lost]

Seems like a much better idea, FPTP is common on forums though, hopefully they'll be able to implement something like the alternative voting method.

 

[Geggy]

I see this as a minor flaw, personally, and am quite happy with how the polls have been handled, overall. Does that mean I think they are perfect? No...but let's get some perspective here. We have someone who is developing the game who is regularly asking for our input. I'm not going to fret about the polling method.

 

[Drowsy]

I see this as a minor flaw, personally, and am quite happy with how the polls have been handled, overall. Does that mean I think they are perfect? No...but let's get some perspective here. We have someone who is developing the game who is regularly asking for our input. I'm not going to fret about the polling method.

I agree. They are going the extra mile to be fair and to get our input. I couldn't be happier. I do see Jedi's point and think these things will be worked out.

 

[Nickle]

I see this as a minor flaw, personally, and am quite happy with how the polls have been handled, overall. Does that mean I think they are perfect? No...but let's get some perspective here. We have someone who is developing the game who is regularly asking for our input. I'm not going to fret about the polling method.

I also agree with you Geggy. Like you said while it is a minor flaw, in my opinion, the polls have been handled pretty great. I really enjoy being able to provide some sort of input into the game. Now whether or not my input wins in the poll, that's another story.

 

[Shrimp]

I see this as a minor flaw, personally, and am quite happy with how the polls have been handled, overall. Does that mean I think they are perfect? No...but let's get some perspective here. We have someone who is developing the game who is regularly asking for our input. I'm not going to fret about the polling method.

Definitely. I appreciate this more than anything. Amy is seriously letting this game be our game. She even had time to do a little stream yesterday which was nice. OVMK was an entire team. Here, it's just a couple of people and I can definitely see they're doing their best while not leaving anyone behind.

 

[The_Jedi_Master]

Definitely. I appreciate this more than anything. Amy is seriously letting this game be our game. She even had time to do a little stream yesterday which was nice. OVMK was an entire team. Here, it's just a couple of people and I can definitely see they're doing their best while not leaving anyone behind.

On the other hand, there comes a point where perhaps too much input is being taken, over things that really would be better left to the team to decide. I do appreciate the community input though, just think people need to be wary whether this community input is actually going to be effective at getting what the community wants.

 

[Jasmine]

On the other hand, there comes a point where perhaps too much input is being taken, over things that really would be better left to the team to decide. I do appreciate the community input though, just think people need to be wary whether this community input is actually going to be effective at getting what the community wants.

I completely agree. Maybe it's just me, but I think there are too many polls. You can't please everyone; someone's going to pout when they don't get their way, even if it was decided rather "fairly". Actually, a lot of the "drama" I've seen is related to the polls. (Remember the day 1 badge poll?) Things like which rooms will be in the shop at the beginning, what should be done with the day 1 badge, etc... (in my opinion) should be decided by in-game staff. It really isn't the community's business or decision...

 

[Geggy]

I completely agree. Maybe it's just me, but I think there are too many polls. You can't please everyone; someone's going to pout when they don't get their way, even if it was decided rather "fairly". Actually, a lot of the "drama" I've seen is related to the polls. (Remember the day 1 badge poll?) Things like which rooms will be in the shop at the beginning, what should be done with the day 1 badge, etc... (in my opinion) should be decided by in-game staff. It really isn't the community's business or decision...

This thread is case in point that you can't please everyone.

I can't speak for Amy, but think about what she might be thinking. We all just came from a majorly dramatic situation, where one of the things that people were critical over was the way in which green flips and/or Blue Stitch Hat were released. "She didn't know," or "she didn't ask," were the mantra of all of those people who were criticizing her over the way those two particular things were handled.

She's also having to get input about a wide range of things related to VMK's operation...stuff we take for granted since we're not the ones having to piece together this game, yet the game is being recreated for our benefit.

So, if she wants to put a poll up, then so-be-it. I don't care whether it's a poll about how much to charge for an in-game poster...if she wants feedback, then there will be plenty of people here that are willing and happy to provide her with some. If people are upset about how some of the polls end up, then it is they who have to learn to let go and either not participate in future polls, or realize that sometimes things just aren't how they would like them. And please know, I say that last sentence as someone who had to do just that with one of the earliest polls on here.

 

[Jasmine]

This thread is case in point that you can't please everyone.

I can't speak for Amy, but think about what she might be thinking. We all just came from a majorly dramatic situation, where one of the things that people were critical over was the way in which green flips and/or Blue Stitch Hat were released. "She didn't know," or "she didn't ask," were the mantra of all of those people who were criticizing her over the way those two particular things were handled.

She's also having to get input about a wide range of things related to VMK's operation...stuff we take for granted since we're not the ones having to piece together this game, yet the game is being recreated for our benefit.

So, if she wants to put a poll up, then so-be-it. I don't care whether it's a poll about how much to charge for an in-game poster...if she wants feedback, then there will be plenty of people here that are willing and happy to provide her with some. If people are upset about how some of the polls end up, then it is they who have to learn to let go and either not participate in future polls, or realize that sometimes things just aren't how they would like them. And please know, I say that last sentence as someone who had to do just that with one of the earliest polls on here.

Yes, and my point is that the community's input isn't needed. It causes more drama than is necessary. In fact, it causes just about (or maybe even more) drama than the "random"/accidental releases on OVMK caused.

I don't mind the polls unless drama starts... I think it's great that she wants our opinion, I just hope that polls won't decide everything... That's the whole point of being a leader --- putting your foot down and making the final decision. I'm not saying you can't ask for input, but I truly don't think polls will work out in the end, because people are going to complain either way. =/

And by the way, Jedi isn't complaining or acting like he isn't pleased... It's more of a suggestion -- that's how I see it.

 

[BadWolf]

That does seem like a good idea, but a little too complicated for my taste. I think the polls are fine the way they are.

 

[Shrimp]

This thread is case in point that you can't please everyone.

I can't speak for Amy, but think about what she might be thinking. We all just came from a majorly dramatic situation, where one of the things that people were critical over was the way in which green flips and/or Blue Stitch Hat were released. "She didn't know," or "she didn't ask," were the mantra of all of those people who were criticizing her over the way those two particular things were handled.

She's also having to get input about a wide range of things related to VMK's operation...stuff we take for granted since we're not the ones having to piece together this game, yet the game is being recreated for our benefit.

So, if she wants to put a poll up, then so-be-it. I don't care whether it's a poll about how much to charge for an in-game poster...if she wants feedback, then there will be plenty of people here that are willing and happy to provide her with some. If people are upset about how some of the polls end up, then it is they who have to learn to let go and either not participate in future polls, or realize that sometimes things just aren't how they would like them. And please know, I say that last sentence as someone who had to do just that with one of the earliest polls on here.

I agree.

I deeply believe Amy has good intentions for us. I mean Amy might not be very talkative like Kevin or Grace, but she's one of those quiet people who talk less and get a lot more work done. Even today on chat Amy mentioned how she only played an hour of the original VMK. Given that fact, I had a whole new level of respect for her. She's working really hard to bring back a game for this grown-up community that she personally never really experienced and all for free, I feel like that's part of the reason she wants our input for every little thing. She hasn't experienced what rares were released during the beta stages, after the beta stages, etc. Yet she has learned so much throughout her development about the game! I think we should let Amy do whatever she wants, even if it seems overdone. This is just the beginning for all of us without professional corporate background help and guidance, Amy's still in the learning process. Soon she'll see for herself that the community doesn't need to have a say on every little thing. Amy has a lot of pressure from the community on her shoulders but hides it well. On livestream yesterday, people were flooding with questions and making rude comments which really worked me up (I heard Amy's a guy, Grizzly is QA_forgotname from VMK, Did you guys know Kevin is Yavn, Amy are you a guy?) Amy didn't block out a single one of those comments, and what did Grace do during her livestream? She blocked out tons of people when they kept spamming suggestions, and making rude remarks. Amy also answered requests like "Oh, go to the Frontierland mines! Oh, show us your inventory!" And answered MVMK will be open one week at latest. Grace ignored so many questions and repeated the same thing over and over or just turned the answer around to a whole other topic. On Nick's story, Amy said she wanted to opensource the game so people could enjoy it in the future. It kind of hit me when Nick said Amy might come off as narcissistic. She's shown the most dedication and productive actions in the shortest time. Seriously, bless her.

 

[Acey]

I agree.

I deeply believe Amy has good intentions for us. I mean Amy might not be very talkative like Kevin or Grace, but she's one of those quiet people who talk less and get a lot more work done. Even today on chat Amy mentioned how she only played an hour of the original VMK. Given that fact, I had a whole new level of respect for her. She's working really hard to bring back a game for this grown-up community that she personally never really experienced and all for free, I feel like that's part of the reason she wants our input for every little thing. She hasn't experienced what rares were released during the beta stages, after the beta stages, etc. Yet she has learned so much throughout her development about the game! I think we should let Amy do whatever she wants, even if it seems overdone. This is just the beginning for all of us without professional corporate background help and guidance, Amy's still in the learning process. Soon she'll see for herself that the community doesn't need to have a say on every little thing. Amy has a lot of pressure from the community on her shoulders but hides it well. On livestream yesterday, people were flooding with questions and making rude comments which really worked me up (I heard Amy's a guy, Grizzly is QA_forgotname from VMK, Did you guys know Kevin is Yavn, Amy are you a guy?) Amy didn't block out a single one of those comments, and what did Grace do during her livestream? She blocked out tons of people when they kept spamming suggestions, and making rude remarks. Amy also answered requests like "Oh, go to the Frontierland mines! Oh, show us your inventory!" And answered MVMK will be open one week at latest. Grace ignored so many questions and repeated the same thing over and over or just turned the answer around to a whole other topic. On Nick's story, Amy said she wanted to opensource the game so people could enjoy it in the future. It kind of hit me when Nick said Amy might come off as narcissistic. She's shown the most dedication and productive actions in the shortest time. Seriously, bless her.

++++++

I love Amy she showed us her kali!! She seemed confused when we all asked for it, but she was patient. Kali is my fave <333333

 

[Foxy]

good idea!

 

[Cat]

Anything I say at this point is repetitive, but I might as well say I fully agree with Jedi.
I noticed this too, how to polls are set up funky making them unfair..
And for those who are just happy for Amy to be listening to them, the polls are not showing accurately what the majority of the community wants.
I do love being able to give my input in things, and really appreciate Amy trying her best, but I also want the polls to be accurate so they can do what they're meant to do; satisfy the community; because that is their purpose. And if that purpose isn't being met, is there a point in having polls?
~ In short, I vote to improve them. d: