Trans.. racial?

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Whispered

Well-Known Member
#1
Can someone be transracial? As in, can someone decide that they identify more with black people, and even though they're born in a (as close as possible) white family, to white parents, with white ancestry, start claiming they're black?

I'd say no, just because one, race is genetic. Secondly, by claiming to be black, the person would qualify for so much government programs/affirmative action that they wouldn't by being white, which is cheating.

Thought?
 

Whispered

Well-Known Member
#6
And can we talk about how ridiculous it is that there's a liberal extremist that compared her to Caitlyn Jenner and other transgenders to try and justify it?

I personally think that Ms. Dolezal should be thrown in jail for a multitude of things she did that were actually illegal, including: falsely reporting hate crimes, misuse of public resources (re: false reporting), potentially lying on an official US Census (if she did), and anything else she did. It should not be something she should get away with by saying "I identify as black".

I identify as a purple people eater. I am now one.
 

Megara

no sleep club
#7
And can we talk about how ridiculous it is that there's a liberal extremist that compared her to Caitlyn Jenner and other transgenders to try and justify it?
This really irritates me. I can't tell you how many times I've seen, "but if people can change gender, why can't they change race?" :ugh:
 

Whispered

Well-Known Member
#8
This really irritates me. I can't tell you how many times I've seen, "but if people can change gender, why can't they change race?" :ugh:
maybe because gender is a social construct.

its kinda like how if you want to change your sex, you actually have to get your pipes changed (to use a euphemism, not trying to offend), but changing genders is easy because it's all a social construct, and it's what you identify as.

same with race and ethnicity, although less of a difference. both are influenced by your genetics - it just so happens that your race is wholly genetic whereas ethnicity is genetic, ancestry, and culture.

regardless, she isn't black. and she never will be. sorr-flippidy doo-y.
 
#9
i see transgender and transracial as the same thing to a extent. I think a person can identify as black, asian, white,blue (BLUE MAN GROUP), red be cool, boy, girl, alien? - that be cool. or whatever. there are transgender people who may change their sex just like people whom may change their skin color can still identify but really genetically never are. This is referring to to your first statement. Medically you should always refer yourself to your genes even race. as certain diseases are common in some races compared to others. Also there are people who skin color does change purposely or medically but still identify with the original race.
 

Myth

Well-Known Member
#10
You can be biracial but that's by birth. Some people choose to identify as one of their races if they are but most people say they're biracial. If you're part of one race I don't see the problem of identifying as that race but if you're one race and you're trying to identify with a race you have absolutely no connection with I will have a problem with that. I could go on about it but you get the basic idea.
 

KarolynD

Impacting lives everywhere
#11
Race is a social construct and is really only a prevalent thing in European colonized country. Therefore, yes you can be transracial and have the right to identify with whatever race you choose. There is no cluster of genes that separates one race from another. All humans are made up of the same 99.9% DNA. If your argument is based on skin tone, I really think you should reassess your stance and read up on the topic a little bit more.
 

Daniella

Well-Known Member
#12
Maybe a better term is trans-cultural? You can't really change your race because lineage is a historical fact. Yeah, you could change your physical appearance but that doesn't change your lineage. I suppose you could choose to celebrate/live cultural aspects that you weren't born into if you really wanted to. I don't think it'd be "wrong" as long as you're being mindful and respectful to the culture.

Also per your example, I think you'd experience more disadvantages identifying as a person of color than as white, so I don't follow? Government assistance isn't cheating. African Americans statistically receive more aid because they have higher rates of poverty as a race. And actually, if you compare the rates of white people who are in poverty to the rate on welfare, you'll find that the percentage on welfare is higher than the poverty rate.

Also, are you claiming that specific races own privilege?
 

Daniella

Well-Known Member
#14
I feel like a good article to bring study for this conversation would be this article: https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordeba...ace-and-racial-identity-are-social-constructs
That's a good article, but I think because New York Times is liberal people will discredit it. The points make sense, but everything is a social construct. Social construct doesn't mean made-up, which is what the article is making it sound like - that was my only problem. I think it's more of a labeling system with phenotypical rules.

Not to compare people to dogs, because we are not worthy, but I think our definition of "race" is actually more closely implying breed. Dogs all have similar genes, but you can tell them apart by color and bone structure (just like humans). The word race itself probably shouldn't be used the way we use it, but the meaning behind it (assuming we mean "breed") isn't really a social construct. I think it's a label/identifier and that's not really a negative or make-believe thing.

With that, a chihuahua can't identify as a border collie, but it could probably herd sheep like one if it really wanted to.
 

morgan

probably sleepy.
#16
I feel like a good article to bring study for this conversation would be this article: https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordeba...ace-and-racial-identity-are-social-constructs
I read this article, and she writes that "whites who begin to experience discrimination because of their intimate connection with someone of another race, or who regularly see their loved ones fall prey to racial discrimination, may begin to no longer feel white". However, how would their experiencing discrimination (because of their relationship with an individual from another race) not just be the experience of oppression as a white individual? Is that to say that since they feel and experience discrimination, that means they are no longer white and are now able to identify as the same race as their partner? That being so, wouldn't that actually eliminate the discrimination they experience, since their exposure to discrimination seems to stem from their relationship with another individual...and then they would identify as white again due to the discrimination being diminished because they would technically no longer be in a relationship with a person from a different race?
 

KarolynD

Impacting lives everywhere
#17
That's a good article, but I think because New York Times is liberal people will discredit it. The points make sense, but everything is a social construct. Social construct doesn't mean made-up, which is what the article is making it sound like - that was my only problem. I think it's more of a labeling system with phenotypical rules.

Not to compare people to dogs, because we are not worthy, but I think our definition of "race" is actually more closely implying breed. Dogs all have similar genes, but you can tell them apart by color and bone structure (just like humans). The word race itself probably shouldn't be used the way we use it, but the meaning behind it (assuming we mean "breed") isn't really a social construct. I think it's a label/identifier and that's not really a negative or make-believe thing.

With that, a chihuahua can't identify as a border collie, but it could probably herd sheep like one if it really wanted to.
Although I can kind of see where you are coming from I don't really feel like they can be compared. In my opinion, it seems as though the differences between dog DNAs are not similar enough to one another to make this connection. On top of that when it comes to dog breeds there is a lot of human interference with the breeding of dogs and the impact this forced breeding has on their DNA. I don't know much on this particular comparison so I don't feel like I really have the best knowledge to reply to this.

https://askabiologist.asu.edu/plosable/dna-dogs

I read this article, and she writes that "whites who begin to experience discrimination because of their intimate connection with someone of another race, or who regularly see their loved ones fall prey to racial discrimination, may begin to no longer feel white". However, how would their experiencing discrimination (because of their relationship with an individual from another race) not just be the experience of oppression as a white individual? Is that to say that since they feel and experience discrimination, that means they are no longer white and are now able to identify as the same race as their partner? That being so, wouldn't that actually eliminate the discrimination they experience, since their exposure to discrimination seems to stem from their relationship with another individual...and then they would identify as white again due to the discrimination being diminished because they would technically no longer be in a relationship with a person from a different race?
I think I understand what you are trying to say, but at the same point in time I feel like I don't. I think the point of the article stating that was just to try and show why someone might feel the way they do about their racial identity. I don't feel as if they are conveying the message that if you experience discrimination you are no longer white either....

"whites who begin to experience discrimination because of their intimate connection with someone of another race, or who regularly see their loved ones fall prey to racial discrimination, may begin to no longer feel white. After all, their lived reality does not align with the social meaning of their whiteness."

With this statement I think the author is trying to depict the "a house, with a white picket fence and a tire swing out front with a two car garage" type of fantasy of what is portrayed as white if that makes sense? You know where the cop stops you to say hello, and not to pull you out of your car or assume that you might be breaking law? Where you don't get followed around a store out of the fear of being a thief. Through my own personal experience once you do experience these types of discrimination (wether its first hand, or with just being a witnessing party) it shapes your mind in a way that I feel like never can really be changed, regardless of what experiences you may have after that.

Also something to note, I feel like you are trying to clump all people who are in interracial relationships together with someone who may identify as transracial. If I am wrong please let me know! Like I said I had a hard time fully following your post, but I can try to clarify my response a little bit better if you would like.
 

morgan

probably sleepy.
#18
I don't feel as if they are conveying the message that if you experience discrimination you are no longer white either....
So basically I was saying, an individual in a relationship with a POC may begin to feel they are a POC due to how they may be treated. Thus, they may begin to identify as a POC because of this. However, if their feelings about this are solely based on how they feel being in a mixed-race relationship, then, once they begin to identify as a POC, they are no longer in a "mixed-race" relationship, removing their source of discrimination and feelings associated with identifying themselves as a POC.

I didn't get that message either, however, my point was less about what I actually said and more so demonstrating how easy it can be sometimes to present an argument that is pretty nonsensical in order to justify our views, as many of these debates seem to go. Eventually, they become a contest of who can perform the most mental gymnastics to try to prove their point. I realize it may be off-topic, however, I generally think illustrating mistakes is a good way to prevent them from being made. Especially with things that can touch on deeply personal subjects where emotions may run higher than logic.

I do my best to never generalize groups of people, so I apologize if that's how my post read.

I think the biggest thing here is that, considering the events of yesterday, it's going to be very difficult to have a serious debate right now. Not that I think debates are pointless, but with things still fresh this is going to spark a similar scenario where instead of trying, people are just going to attack others.
 
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KarolynD

Impacting lives everywhere
#19
So basically I was saying, an individual in a relationship with a POC may begin to feel they are a POC due to how they may be treated. Thus, they may begin to identify as a POC because of this. However, if their feelings about this are solely based on how they feel being in a mixed-race relationship, then, once they begin to identify as a POC, they are no longer in a "mixed-race" relationship, removing their source of discrimination and feelings associated with identifying themselves as a POC.

I didn't get that message either, however, my point was less about what I actually said and more so demonstrating how easy it can be sometimes to present an argument that is pretty nonsensical in order to justify our views, as many of these debates seem to go. Eventually, they become a contest of who can perform the most mental gymnastics to try to prove their point. I realize it may be off-topic, however, I generally think illustrating mistakes is a good way to prevent them from being made. Especially with things that can touch on deeply personal subjects where emotions may run higher than logic.

I do my best to never generalize groups of people, so I apologize if that's how my post read.

I think the biggest thing here is that, considering the events of yesterday, it's going to be very difficult to have a serious debate right now. Not that I think debates are pointless, but with things still fresh this is going to spark a similar scenario where instead of trying, people are just going to attack others.
Yes, I understand what you are saying a little bit better. On some instances, I partly agree. The only real comment I had to add is, are these mental gymnastics the things that put us in to these particular boxes in the first place? I feel like understanding this dynamic better helps with the further development of fluidity on all spectrums :).
 
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