On Staff and Competition Judging

[Rosey]

I don't think this needs to be as difficult as it's being made out to be.
I see it like this:
Those that work/volunteer for MyVMK in any way, shape, or form, that uphold a position of authority may not participate in a competition of any shape or form while they are actively performing their duties.

For example, Disney does not allow its cast members, or family members of said cast members to participate in any contests/competitions/raffles/etc. so that fairness can be ensured.
The same goes for any other corporation or group, and I get that MyVMK isn't a major site and that it is a very small community, but the spirit of the issue is the same. The community wants fairness, and equality takes sacrifice.

Honestly it shouldn't be this hard to understand.
But no matter how many times we say it, and that fact people are upset by this, no one cares for some reason or they uphold a reason to say "no you're wrong/this is wrong" which is pointless because we can see a similar issue that you (not you Moth) can't see.

Problem: staff entering comps with US
Solution: make their own competition

 

[MelodyTimeyWhimey]

As I do not feel that the staff should be able to compete in the competition anymore, it feels like this is only happening because the staff have lost their anonymity due to some people who thought it was okay to post their actual identities somewhere. It is unfair to them that they do not get to participate in something just because they have been unwilling revealed. This never used to be a problem before recent events have happened and the players became upset over these events.

As @MinnieMagic said, they are also players and deserve the right to enter in all in-game competitions and forum competitions alike. It is not a paid job and they gain nothing from anything in their job. The staff volunteer to be able to bring us the magic in the game. Just because their identities have been compromised does not mean that they should be disqualified from the competitions.

From what has been posted in the previous week or so, the new competition rules were that the competition was completely anonymous and based on a multiple staff vote. That is a very nice change and those rules seemed to be very well implemented. If staff implements the Community Leaders again who is to say that they will not be biased in their selections as well? Anyone can be shown a picture of a player's room and there could still very well be a bias. The same thing could be said if the players were given the opportunity to vote for it themselves, for they could also be shown a picture from a friend and rig the voting.

Really there is no possible way of solving this without it all turning out in the same way it has turned out in this previous in-game competition. If we give the players the control the results might be different but you could still have the whole voting system rigged. It is a vicious cycle that will never end. The only way to possibly solve it is by letting the competitions go altogether; and nobody would really want that.

 

[iMystery]

Honestly, knowing that Staff can enter in competitions negates any knowledge of who the Staff's player accounts are. The problem isn't that we see them winning, it's that we know that they're participating in an event that they and their fellow Staff members judge. That's the problem. Not them winning, but them being an employee of a game, judging a competition in that game, and potentially winning it.

 

[Rob P]

As I do not feel that the staff should be able to compete in the competition anymore, it feels like this is only happening because the staff have lost their anonymity due to some people who thought it was okay to post their actual identities somewhere. It is unfair to them that they do not get to participate in something just because they have been unwilling revealed. This never used to be a problem before recent events have happened and the players became upset over these events.

As @MinnieMagic said, they are also players and deserve the right to enter in all in-game competitions and forum competitions alike. It is not a paid job and they gain nothing from anything in their job. The staff volunteer to be able to bring us the magic in the game. Just because their identities have been compromised does not mean that they should be disqualified from the competitions.

From what has been posted in the previous week or so, the new competition rules were that the competition was completely anonymous and based on a multiple staff vote. That is a very nice change and those rules seemed to be very well implemented. If staff implements the Community Leaders again who is to say that they will not be biased in their selections as well? Anyone can be shown a picture of a player's room and there could still very well be a bias. The same thing could be said if the players were given the opportunity to vote for it themselves, for they could also be shown a picture from a friend and rig the voting.

Really there is no possible way of solving this without it all turning out in the same way it has turned out in this previous in-game competition. If we give the players the control the results might be different but you could still have the whole voting system rigged. It is a vicious cycle that will never end. The only way to possibly solve it is by letting the competitions go altogether; and nobody would really want that.

I don't really think this is an anonymity issue more than it is an issue of unfair advantages.
Yes, they work on their regular accounts to earn items and credits like any other regular player, but as staff members, they are able to see what items will be released that month way ahead of time compared to other players. Plus, despite their new "competition rules" that guarantee that staff voted anonymously, there is automatic bias in that staff members most likely know who each of their regular players' rooms are. I really don't get why this is even a debate when almost every other online game/organization imposes this rule.

Staff should respect and understand that they cannot enter regular-player competitions. Regular players do not know what items are coming out until the day before its release. Regular players do not know what type of competition will be held. Staff have all of these advantages and probably even more advantages than we know of!

It is unfair to players who don't have these advantages. It is unfair to players who are fairly new to the game and whose chances of winning go down drastically as a result of staff participating.

 

[CoralHibiscus]

Honestly, knowing that Staff can enter in competitions negates any knowledge of who the Staff's player accounts are. The problem isn't that we see them winning, it's that we know that they're participating in an event that they and their fellow Staff members judge. That's the problem. Not them winning, but them being an employee of a game, judging a competition in that game, and potentially winning it.

I work at The Limited. If they have a raffle or a giveaway, I can't enter to win since I am an employee. It was the same way when I worked at Wal-Mart and Macy's. That's how most businesses run their giveaways, raffles or competitions.
Now saying all that, we do have little competitions for just the staff. (An example: Whoever gets the most store credit cards opened in a day gets a cookie or something along those lines.) I see no problem with @Amy deciding to implement competitions just for staff as I have said in a previous post where I gave an idea on how they could potentially keep themselves anonymous but still get the prize to their player account.

Maybe they can make the room as their player account but have it entered under their Staff name so they remain as anonymous as possible to the community? We all know that Staff know each others player accounts, so they could make sure the winner gets the items added the right account.
That way they can have a staff competition, but still get a prize for their player account.

 

[MinnieMagic]

It is in no way unfair to say that someone that is taking on the work of being an admin/staff for the site cannot participate. This is seen literally everywhere, in formal business and other fan-run websites as well. If you want the power, you have to take the responsibilities that come with it, even if they are "less fun" for you. It was their choice to take on a role like that for their hobby.
I'm okay with the spawning in for building game rooms, and event rooms, but there needs to be a line drawn for personal use items. This makes the issue that @MinnieMagic is bringing up moot. If someone can spawn in an item and no one is following up, then they'll spawn in extras for their non-staff avatar/account whenever they want it before they no longer have the ability to do so. That's one of the main problems going on here. It's the virtual equivalent of stealing from the till.

People in our community that have been here for some time are simply irritated with the way that everything goes around here, and we immediately assume that things are going to continue on the way that they have already proven themselves to be.
The staff/admins currently do not want to re-implement the Community Leaders, (which are basically what @Midien is talking about,) nor do they bat an eye at all of the complaints and constructive comments that are received. The majority of the community is forced to sit and accept what's going on right in front of us all, when everyone can clearly see where cheating and abuse is occurring.
I joined right after that big blowout, and I too wanted to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, but I was completely wrong.
I'm tired of fighting twice as hard for pretty much anything and everything just because I'm not an admin/staff, or a friend of an admin/staff. I'm pretty sure that most of the people that have already left the community feel the same (as evidenced by the majority of the "goodbye" posts.)

I get that we're all here for fun, but those that want to/do run the fun should not be able to participate in events that they have planned in any way shape or form other than running the event. If you don't want the work, don't take it on. It's that simple.

They should not be allowed to use items that are not released. I NEVER said they could. My point was that Im not sure that I totally agree that they should not be allowed to enter the contest under their normal account using regular items like the rest of us. THIS is not a business and its not a paying role. If you make it difficult, nobody will want any of those roles and this game will be capoot. The people who are behind staff jobs should be able to participate, but only using the regular items like the rest of us. I believe they have the right to be able to have the prizes on their regular accounts if their rooms are good enough to win the competition. They may not use their normal accounts very much, but when they do, they should be able to have the items and not have to trade for them at an extremely high price. So my point wasnt moot as you say. I dont think you quite understood what I was trying to get at.

 

[justicegage]

Still, the fact that I couldn't enter normal competitions would not deter me from become a staff. I would love to be a member of the staff, and I fully 100% support staff-only competitions and player-only competitions (rather one-in-the-same just judged separately). It's a volunteer position, yes, but if you volunteer to take on the responsibility then you should have to volunteer to give up your chances at winning the grand prize meant for regular players who aren't a part of the staff.

Literally, what is so wrong with having the EXACT SAME competition that everyone partakes in but staff is judged SEPARATELY from regular players. I do not understand what is so difficult about this concept.

If you make it difficult, nobody will want any of those roles and this game will be capoot.

Okay, well this isn't difficult, and I for one would not in the slightest be deterred from become staff because of this rule. It is VERY reasonable and not in the least unfair.

The staff volunteer to be able to bring us the magic in the game.

Okay, well I volunteer in clubs and other organizations at school and as a part of the board, I give up the chance of winning some of the competitions that we hold. It's literally that simple.

Here's the deal, this is a completely ridiculous thing to debate because it really is fairly simple.

Staff and Regular Players should both be able to participate in the competitions but they must be judged separately so staff isn't receiving a prize over a regular player. They volunteered for the role, they should have to forfeit the Grand Prize and let a regular player win. (Staff judges players, players judge staff.. it's simple really.)

@Amy, this is a simple solution and if your staff are unhappy with forfeiting an in-game prize because they volunteered for this leadership role, then I must say, you have some immature, infantile, and quite frankly, some toxic staff.

I would love more than anything to have a chance at being staff and being a positive and encouraging leader for the MyVMK Players. I'm not saying that there aren't already staff like that, but it seems to me, those staff wouldn't be worked up about this simple fix.

Side note: I didn't mean to sound rude or abrasive, it's just this debate has gone on for long enough now, and it's just so hard for me to comprehend what people don't understand about solutions for this problem. It's a simple fix, and one that requires absolutely NO coding but simply, a change in the rules.

Thanks for reading,
Justice Gage/TropicalShyFire

 

[LazyBunz]

My replies are usually short because I do not like to rant but I do agree that the contests should be seperate from norm players/inside staff.

 

[Tohrukun]

If major companies and organizations always include no-staff provisions in their contest rules then obviously there is a concern with ensuring fairness in contest results.

from Z100's (NY radio station) general contest rules:

Spoiler: click me

Disneyland's upcoming "Diamond Days" contest rules:

Spoiler: click me

America's Funniest Home Videos contest rules:

Spoiler: click me

FOX's general contest rules:

Spoiler: click me

please consider this for future contests thank you

 

[Littlebelle]

My opinion is this. Staff should not participate in contests or events they are organizing. When the first call for staff came up I chose not to send in a resume because I wanted to be able to build and compete in competitions. For I thought as staff you would not be able to. At least for now I think that should be the case.

There is too much mistrust between the staff and players. Having a staff win a prize in the holiday contest was not the best for healing this community. It actually created more bad feelings. I am not saying that staff did not deserve to win. I am saying if I was that staff I would have declined the win at least until things settle down. Unfortunately that win tainted the judging process because there is so much mistrust. Sometimes when you are in leadership you have to sacrifice for the sake of the community.

If staff want to participate they should create a clone that no one knows is theirs and enter that way. They should then be allowed to transfer any awards they won to their main character. I would not do this the next day but say a month later. To me it is an honor to be a staff it is also a great sacrifice too. Sometimes that sacrifice means you miss out on stuff or events on your character for the sake of the community.

The focus of the staff right now should be one of doing everything they can to build bridges of healing and trust. So for now they should not be participating in anything. Which really is unfair to them I know. But to build trust again maybe that is what is needed. I would suggest that they are compensate with non trade able host prizes and credits. So they will still get the items as a bonus of being staff.

I know that seems unfair and I do not write it to be cruel it is just one of the ways I see that can be used to create trust again. If I was staff I would do this.

 

[Mothstradamus]

They should not be allowed to use items that are not released. I NEVER said they could. My point was that Im not sure that I totally agree that they should not be allowed to enter the contest under their normal account using regular items like the rest of us. THIS is not a business and its not a paying role. If you make it difficult, nobody will want any of those roles and this game will be capoot. The people who are behind staff jobs should be able to participate, but only using the regular items like the rest of us. I believe they have the right to be able to have the prizes on their regular accounts if their rooms are good enough to win the competition. They may not use their normal accounts very much, but when they do, they should be able to have the items and not have to trade for them at an extremely high price. So my point wasnt moot as you say. I dont think you quite understood what I was trying to get at.

Don't take a job unless you're willing to 100% stick to and uphold the rules.
There are people that don't enjoy the playing, and would more enjoy running things. The staff positions are for them. If you want to play the game, and not work or put in the time, then don't take the job.

So yes, your point was moot according to the most basic understanding of a job/staff position.